Agenda and minutes

Venue: Zoom

Contact: Aled Elwyn Jones 

Note: 333 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 24/03/2021 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

This meeting was held in a virtual format, with Members joining by video-conference.

 

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

 

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

The first 8 questions were asked. Question 2 was answered by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Mental Health, Wellbeing and Welsh Language

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

 

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.30

The first 6 questions were asked. Question 6 was answered by the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(5 mins)

3.

The Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) (Amendment) Order 2021

NDM7681 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1.   Approves The Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) (Amendment) Order 2021 laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

 

Supporting Documents

Report of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee

 

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.21

NDM7681 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves The Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) (Amendment) Order 2021 laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(0 mins)

4.

The Welsh Elections (Miscellaneous Provisions) Order 2021 - Withdrawn

(15 mins)

5.

The Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (No. 2) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2021

NDM7678 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1.   Approves The Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (No. 2) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

Supporting Documents

Report of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee

 

 

 

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.25

NDM7678 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves The Public Health (Protection from Eviction) (No. 2) (Wales) (Coronavirus) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(0 mins)

6.

Topical Questions

No Topical Questions were accepted 

Minutes:

No Topical Questions were accepted.

(5 mins)

7.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Consolidation Bills

NDM7668 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Consolidation Bills’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to introduce a new Standing Order 26C, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.30

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7668 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Consolidation Bills’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to introduce a new Standing Order 26C, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

51

0

4

55

The motion was agreed.

 

(5 mins)

8.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Departure from the European Union

 

NDM7669 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Departure from the European Union’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 21, 26, 26A, 26B, 27 and 30C, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.38

NDM7669 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Departure from the European Union’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 21, 26, 26A, 26B, 27 and 30C, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(5 mins)

9.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Early Business Following a Senedd Election

NDM7670 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Early Business Following a Senedd Election’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 6, 7, 8 and 17, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.42

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7670 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Early Business Following a Senedd Election’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 6, 7, 8 and 17, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

50

1

4

55

The motion was agreed.

 

(5 mins)

10.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Sub Judice

 

NDM7671 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Sub Judice’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 13.15 and 17.28, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.48

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7671 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Sub Judice’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 13.15 and 17.28, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

51

0

4

55

The motion was agreed.

 

(5 mins)

11.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Recall of the Senedd

 

NDM7672 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

 1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Recall of the Senedd’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to introduce a new Standing Order 12.3A, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.52

NDM7672 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

 1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Recall of the Senedd’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to introduce a new Standing Order 12.3A, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(5 mins)

12.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Membership of Committees

NDM7673 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Membership of Committees’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Order 17, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.54

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7673 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Membership of Committees’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Order 17, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

49

0

6

55

The motion was agreed.

 

(5 mins)

13.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Miscellaneous Changes

NDM7674 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Miscellaneous Changes’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 1, 11 and 20, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.56

NDM7674 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Miscellaneous Changes’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 1, 11 and 20, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(5 mins)

14.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Temporary Standing Orders

NDM7675 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Temporary Standing Orders’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 12 and 34, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

3. Notes the Business Committee’s recommendation regarding the use of remote electronic voting under Standing Order 34.14A, following the Senedd election, including for the purposes of electing the Presiding Officer and Deputy.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.01

NDM7675 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Temporary Standing Orders’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Orders 12 and 34, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

3. Notes the Business Committee’s recommendation regarding the use of remote electronic voting under Standing Order 34.14A, following the Senedd election, including for the purposes of electing the Presiding Officer and Deputy.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(15 mins)

15.

Motion to amend Standing Orders: Definition of Political Groups

NDM7676 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Definition of Political Groups’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Order 1, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.05

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7676 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 33.2:

1. Considers the report of the Business Committee, ‘Amending Standing Orders: Definition of Political Groups’, laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

2. Approves the proposals to amend Standing Order 1, as set out in Annex A of the Business Committee’s report.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

38

0

17

55

The motion was agreed.

 

(15 mins)

16.

Debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee Report—Report 05-21

NDM7679 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Considers the Report of the Standards of Conduct Committee - Report 05-21 laid before the Senedd on 17 March 2021 in accordance with Standing Order 22.9.

2. Endorses the recommendation in the report.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.23

NDM7679 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Considers the Report of the Standards of Conduct Committee - Report 05-21 laid before the Senedd on 17 March 2021 in accordance with Standing Order 22.9.

2. Endorses the recommendation in the report.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(5 mins)

17.

Motion to Approve the Code of Conduct for Members of the Senedd

NDM7680 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the report of the Standards of Conduct Committee: The Review of the Code of Conduct dated 17 March 2021 (“the report”).

2. Adopts the Code of Conduct for Members of the Senedd laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021, to come into force at the commencement of the sixth Senedd.

3. Notes the accompanying guidance to the Code of Conduct set out in annex A to the report.

Standards of Conduct Committee: The Review of the Code of Conduct for Members of the Senedd

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.27

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7680 Jayne Bryant (Newport West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the report of the Standards of Conduct Committee: The Review of the Code of Conduct dated 17 March 2021 (“the report”).

2. Adopts the Code of Conduct for Members of the Senedd laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021, to come into force at the commencement of the sixth Senedd.

3. Notes the accompanying guidance to the Code of Conduct set out in annex A to the report.

Standards of Conduct Committee: The Review of the Code of Conduct for Members of the Senedd

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

49

0

5

54

The motion was agreed.

 

(60 mins)

18.

Debate on the Finance Committee report: Inquiry into the implementation of the Wales Act 2014 and operation of the Fiscal Framework

NDM7682 Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Finance Committee on the implementation of the Wales Act 2014 and operation of the Fiscal Framework, which was laid in the Table Office on 1 February 2021.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 16 March 2021.

Senedd Commission response to the Committee’s report

HMRC response to the Committee’s report

Letter from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to the Finance Committee

Minutes:

The item started at 16.31

NDM7682 Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Finance Committee on the implementation of the Wales Act 2014 and operation of the Fiscal Framework, which was laid in the Table Office on 1 February 2021.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 16 March 2021.

Senedd Commission response to the Committee’s report

HMRC response to the Committee’s report

Letter from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to the Finance Committee

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(30 mins)

19.

Debate on the Public Accounts Committee report: Delivering for future generations: the story so far

NDM7667 Nick Ramsay (Monmouth)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Public Accounts Committee, 'Delivering for Future Generations: The story so far', which was laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 17.13

NDM7667 Nick Ramsay (Monmouth)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Public Accounts Committee, 'Delivering for Future Generations: The story so far', which was laid in the Table Office on 17 March 2021.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36

(30 mins)

20.

Debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Report: Exploring the devolution of broadcasting: how can Wales get the media it needs?

NDM7666 Bethan Sayed (South Wales West)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, ‘Exploring the devolution of broadcasting: how can Wales get the media it needs?’, laid in the Table Office on 11 March 2021.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 17.37

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7666 Bethan Sayed (South Wales West)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, ‘Exploring the devolution of broadcasting: how can Wales get the media it needs?’, laid in the Table Office on 11 March 2021.

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

50

0

4

54

The motion was agreed.

 

(30 mins)

21.

Welsh Conservatives Debate - The Future of Wales

NDM7683 Mark Isherwood (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Regrets that successive Labour-led Welsh Governments have failed to improve the life chances of the people of Wales.

2. Recognises the admission of the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport that “We don’t know what we’re doing on the economy”.

3. Notes that the Minister for Health and Social Services said that it would be “foolish” to have a plan for backlogs before the pandemic is over.

4. Further notes that the former First Minister also admitted that Labour had taken “its eye off the ball” on education.

5. Acknowledges that to rebuild Wales, we need a change of direction and a new government on the 6 May 2021, that will deliver a recovery plan for Wales, which includes:

a) creating 65,000 new jobs, with at least 15,000 green jobs;

b) tackling the backlog of waiting times in Wales;

c) ending the underfunding of our young people;

d) building the infrastructure Wales needs including the M4 relief road plus upgrades to the A40 and A55;

e) supporting people with the cost of living by freezing council tax for two years;

f) putting Wales onto the path to net zero by 2050.

BBC News - Theresa May claims Welsh Labour betrayed generation of children - 18 May 2018

BBC News - Labour minister: 'We don't know what we're doing on economy' - 25 June 2019

BBC News - Covid: Cancer delays 'could cause 2,000 deaths in Wales' - 9 November 2020

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises that in the face of unprecedented challenges of austerity, Brexit, climate change and Covid-19, the Welsh Government has:

a)  Established the Development Bank of Wales, secured more than 100,000 all-age apprenticeships and provided unrivalled business rates relief including over £580m in permanent relief for small businesses;

b) Introduced the New Treatment Fund, making newly-approved treatments available in the NHS in an average of 13 days;

c) Improved PISA results in all three domains and developed a radical new curriculum for our schools;

d) Declared a climate change emergency and set Wales’s first legally binding target to achieve net zero emissions;

e) Built 20,000 new homes and strengthened the rights of renters.

2. Notes the full achievements are set out in the Welsh Government’s Annual Report.

Programme for Government Annual Report

 

Amendment 2 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Believes that Wales will only fully recover by electing a new government that will let the people of Wales, not Westminster, decide on our future.

Believes that Wales needs a change of direction through allowing the people of Wales to have their say on whether Wales should become an independent country by holding an independence referendum during the next Senedd term.

 

Amendment 3 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that, in order to rebuild Wales, the next Senedd should have powers over matters currently reserved to Westminster, including policing and justice, rail, welfare, broadcasting, energy projects, and the Crown Estate.

 

 

 

Minutes:

The item started at 18.07

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7683 Mark Isherwood (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Regrets that successive Labour-led Welsh Governments have failed to improve the life chances of the people of Wales.

2. Recognises the admission of the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport that “We don’t know what we’re doing on the economy”.

3. Notes that the Minister for Health and Social Services said that it would be “foolish” to have a plan for backlogs before the pandemic is over.

4. Further notes that the former First Minister also admitted that Labour had taken “its eye off the ball” on education.

5. Acknowledges that to rebuild Wales, we need a change of direction and a new government on the 6 May 2021, that will deliver a recovery plan for Wales, which includes:

a) creating 65,000 new jobs, with at least 15,000 green jobs;

b) tackling the backlog of waiting times in Wales;

c) ending the underfunding of our young people;

d) building the infrastructure Wales needs including the M4 relief road plus upgrades to the A40 and A55;

e) supporting people with the cost of living by freezing council tax for two years;

f) putting Wales onto the path to net zero by 2050.

BBC News - Theresa May claims Welsh Labour betrayed generation of children - 18 May 2018

BBC News - Labour minister: 'We don't know what we're doing on economy' - 25 June 2019

BBC News - Covid: Cancer delays 'could cause 2,000 deaths in Wales' - 9 November 2020

For

Abstain

Against

Total

13

0

41

54

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises that in the face of unprecedented challenges of austerity, Brexit, climate change and Covid-19, the Welsh Government has:

a)  Established the Development Bank of Wales, secured more than 100,000 all-age apprenticeships and provided unrivalled business rates relief including over £580m in permanent relief for small businesses;

b) Introduced the New Treatment Fund, making newly-approved treatments available in the NHS in an average of 13 days;

c) Improved PISA results in all three domains and developed a radical new curriculum for our schools;

d) Declared a climate change emergency and set Wales’s first legally binding target to achieve net zero emissions;

e) Built 20,000 new homes and strengthened the rights of renters.

2. Notes the full achievements are set out in the Welsh Government’s Annual Report.

Programme for Government Annual Report

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

28

0

26

54

Amendment 1 was agreed.

Amendment 2 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Believes that Wales will only fully recover by electing a new government that will let the people of Wales, not Westminster, decide on our future.

Believes that Wales needs a change of direction through allowing the people of Wales to have their say on whether Wales should become an independent country by holding an independence referendum during the next Senedd term.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

10

0

44

54

Amendment 2 was not agreed.

Amendment 3 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that, in order to rebuild Wales, the next Senedd should have powers over matters currently reserved to Westminster, including policing and justice, rail, welfare, broadcasting, energy projects, and the Crown Estate.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

10

0

44

54

Amendment 3 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM7683 Mark Isherwood (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises that in the face of unprecedented challenges of austerity, Brexit, climate change and Covid-19, the Welsh Government has:

a)  Established the Development Bank of Wales, secured more than 100,000 all-age apprenticeships and provided unrivalled business rates relief including over £580m in permanent relief for small businesses;

b) Introduced the New Treatment Fund, making newly-approved treatments available in the NHS in an average of 13 days;

c) Improved PISA results in all three domains and developed a radical new curriculum for our schools;

d) Declared a climate change emergency and set Wales’s first legally binding target to achieve net zero emissions;

e) Built 20,000 new homes and strengthened the rights of renters.

2. Notes the full achievements are set out in the Welsh Government’s Annual Report.

Programme for Government Annual Report

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

28

55

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote to vote against the motion as amended, in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

The motion as amended was not agreed.

 

(30 mins)

22.

Short Debate

NDM7677 Mark Isherwood (North Wales)

Children's Hospices - a lifeline fund for Wales.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 18.44

NDM7677 Mark Isherwood (North Wales)

Children's Hospices - a lifeline fund for Wales.

 

23.

Voting Time

Minutes:

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 19.07 proceedings were suspended to allow a technical break before voting time.

The item started at 19.15

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

24.

Closing Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 19.24