Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd

Contact: Aled Elwyn Jones 

Note: 306(v5) 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 25/11/2020 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

Questions 1 and 3-9 were asked. Question 2 was not asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Education

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.17

The first 7 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(30 mins)

3.

Questions to the Senedd Commission

Minutes:

The item started at 15.04

All 6 questions were asked.

 

(0 mins)

4.

Topical Questions

No Topical Questions have been accepted.

Minutes:

No Topical Questions were accepted

 

(5 mins)

5.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 15.25

Vikki Howells made a statement on: The groundbreaking achievements of Elaine Morgan, renowned writer, journalist and revolutionary anthropologist.

Rhun ap Iorwerth made a statement on: The Senedd’s local COVID heroes gallery.

Huw Irranca-Davies made a statement on: ESF Fire safety campaign.

Delyth Jewell made a statement on: Jan Morris – A rich, artful life.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 15.33 the Deputy Presiding Officer suspended the meeting.

 

(30 mins)

6.

Debate on a Members Legislative Proposal - A deposit return scheme and waste reduction Bill

NDM7481 Janet Finch-Saunders (Aberconwy)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill that would make provisions to introduce a deposit return scheme and to reduce waste in Wales.

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to:

a) establish the creation of a deposit return scheme for drinks containers in Wales, which would see consumers pay a deposit, repayable on return of the container;

b) reduce the number of single-use plastic and glass bottles, as well as steel and aluminium cans;

c) respond to increased amounts of recyclable waste, such as personal protective equipment being used to fight COVID-19, where a growing number of items are being discarded and affecting our wild and marine life; and

d) increase accountability by establishing a duty on the Welsh Government to lay an annual report to the Welsh Parliament detailing specific policies undertaken to reduce the discarding of recyclable waste and the impact these have had to improve Wales’s natural environment.

Supporters

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

Minutes:

The item started at 15.42

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7481 Janet Finch-Saunders (Aberconwy)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill that would make provisions to introduce a deposit return scheme and to reduce waste in Wales.

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to:

a) establish the creation of a deposit return scheme for drinks containers in Wales, which would see consumers pay a deposit, repayable on return of the container;

b) reduce the number of single-use plastic and glass bottles, as well as steel and aluminium cans;

c) respond to increased amounts of recyclable waste, such as personal protective equipment being used to fight COVID-19, where a growing number of items are being discarded and affecting our wild and marine life; and

d) increase accountability by establishing a duty on the Welsh Government to lay an annual report to the Welsh Parliament detailing specific policies undertaken to reduce the discarding of recyclable waste and the impact these have had to improve Wales’s natural environment.

Supporters

Llyr Gruffydd

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

34

18

1

53

The motion was agreed.

 

(60 mins)

7.

Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee debate on the National Development Framework

NDM7487 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Notes the draft National Development Framework, laid on 21 September 2020.

2. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the 60-day Senedd consideration period began on the day on which the draft of the Framework was laid in the Senedd.

3. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the Welsh Ministers must have regard to any resolution passed by the Senedd and any recommendation made by a committee of the Senedd with regard to the draft during that 60-day period.

Planning (Wales) Act 2015

Supporting documents
Report of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee: Future Wales: The National Plan 2040
Letter from the Enterprise, Infrastructure and Skills Committee to the Minister for Housing and Local Government
Response from Minister for Housing and Local Government to the Enterprise, Infrastructure and Skills Committee
Letter from the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee to the Minister for Housing and Local Government

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Believes that the revised four-region model in Future Wales: the national plan 2040:

a) has been inspired by a Conservative, unionist agenda based on the UK Government’s city and growth deals;

b) would drive a wedge into Wales, splitting the north of our country from the south and would do little to proactively improve north-south connectivity; and

c) would neglect some of those parts of Wales most in need of regeneration and development, namely the western seaboard and the valleys of the south.

Calls on the Welsh Government to replace the four-region model proposed in Future Wales: the national plan 2040 with an alternative regional map of Wales focused on making Wales a connected, sustainable, prosperous and self-sufficient nation in every sense.

Future Wales: the national plan 2040

Amendment 2 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Notes that Dr Neil Harris of Cardiff University, in evidence to the Senedd’s Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, summarised the approach underpinning Future Wales: the national plan 2040 as one which is based on urban-focused growth and stability elsewhere.

Believes that the approach underpinning Future Wales: the national plan 2040:

a) threatens to entrench the failure to distribute wealth, growth and development equally across Wales as a permanent feature of Wales’s governance in this long-term plan; and

b) will lead to overdevelopment in the areas already prioritised as preferred locations for substantial residential and other development, whilst doing little to address the need for sustainable development in other areas including the need for social and affordable housing to meet the housing crisis.

Believes that the planning system in Wales must reflect the need for suitable development in the right places according to local need; give communities a greater say in developments in their areas and that the planning system must permit holistic planning at the appropriate level, but believes that the transfer of power and accountability over planning from local authorities to corporate joint committees through strategic development plans is likely to further limit the local voice in planning.

Calls on the Welsh Government to replace the approach which currently underpins Future Wales: the national plan 2040 with an alternative approach focused on distributing wealth, power and investment equitably across the whole of Wales by targeting intervention and growth to the areas in most need.

Written submission by Neil Harris in advance of evidence session on the National Development Framework for the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee - October 2019

Minutes:

The item started at 16.14

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7487 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Notes the draft National Development Framework, laid on 21 September 2020.

2. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the 60-day Senedd consideration period began on the day on which the draft of the Framework was laid in the Senedd.

3. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the Welsh Ministers must have regard to any resolution passed by the Senedd and any recommendation made by a committee of the Senedd with regard to the draft during that 60-day period.

Planning (Wales) Act 2015

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Believes that the revised four-region model in Future Wales: the national plan 2040:

a) has been inspired by a Conservative, unionist agenda based on the UK Government’s city and growth deals;

b) would drive a wedge into Wales, splitting the north of our country from the south and would do little to proactively improve north-south connectivity; and

c) would neglect some of those parts of Wales most in need of regeneration and development, namely the western seaboard and the valleys of the south.

Calls on the Welsh Government to replace the four-region model proposed in Future Wales: the national plan 2040 with an alternative regional map of Wales focused on making Wales a connected, sustainable, prosperous and self-sufficient nation in every sense.

Future Wales: the national plan 2040

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

9

1

43

53

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new points at end of motion:

Notes that Dr Neil Harris of Cardiff University, in evidence to the Senedd’s Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, summarised the approach underpinning Future Wales: the national plan 2040 as one which is based on urban-focused growth and stability elsewhere.

Believes that the approach underpinning Future Wales: the national plan 2040:

a) threatens to entrench the failure to distribute wealth, growth and development equally across Wales as a permanent feature of Wales’s governance in this long-term plan; and

b) will lead to overdevelopment in the areas already prioritised as preferred locations for substantial residential and other development, whilst doing little to address the need for sustainable development in other areas including the need for social and affordable housing to meet the housing crisis.

Believes that the planning system in Wales must reflect the need for suitable development in the right places according to local need; give communities a greater say in developments in their areas and that the planning system must permit holistic planning at the appropriate level, but believes that the transfer of power and accountability over planning from local authorities to corporate joint committees through strategic development plans is likely to further limit the local voice in planning.

Calls on the Welsh Government to replace the approach which currently underpins Future Wales: the national plan 2040 with an alternative approach focused on distributing wealth, power and investment equitably across the whole of Wales by targeting intervention and growth to the areas in most need.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

9

10

34

53

Amendment 2 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7487 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Notes the draft National Development Framework, laid on 21 September 2020.

2. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the 60-day Senedd consideration period began on the day on which the draft of the Framework was laid in the Senedd.

3. Notes that, in accordance with Section 3 of the Planning (Wales) Act 2015, the Welsh Ministers must have regard to any resolution passed by the Senedd and any recommendation made by a committee of the Senedd with regard to the draft during that 60-day period.

Planning (Wales) Act 2015

For

Abstain

Against

Total

41

3

9

53

The motion without amendment was agreed.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 17.16 the Presiding Officer suspended the meeting.

 

(60 mins)

8.

Welsh Conservatives debate - The impact of COVID-19 on health services

NDM7489 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the BBC Wales Investigates report that showed a ten-fold increase in patients waiting for all treatments in the Welsh NHS compared to September 2019.

2. Further notes the warning from leading cancer experts and charities that 2,000 people could die because of COVID-related delays in the Welsh NHS.

3. Recognises the hard work, dedication and commitment of staff in the healthcare sector supporting patients not just with coronavirus but with a variety of conditions.

4. Regrets that the Minister for Health and Social Services has estimated that it would take a full parliamentary term to resume normal services and that it would be foolish to have a plan in place to tackle the waiting list backlog.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) immediately boost the use of COVID-free hospitals, as recommended by the Royal College of Surgeons and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine;

b) conduct an urgent review into how hospital patients in Wales are being discharged during the pandemic and implement those findings to tackle bottlenecks in hospitals, as recommended by the Royal College of Physicians;

c) significantly improve its testing regime to ramp up capacity and ensure that COVID-19 is isolated and kept out of Welsh hospitals;

d) introduce a cancer recovery plan, as seen elsewhere across the UK, and increase investment in the roll-out of rapid diagnostic centres across Wales; and

e) implement a nationwide campaign to ensure that people who suspect they have cancer, or need to go to hospital in an emergency, continue to do so.

Written evidence submitted to the UK Parliament by the Royal College of Surgeons of England and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine - 16 June 2020

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete point 1 and replace with:

Notes that the Welsh statistics published on 19 November show an 11 per cent increase in the total numbers waiting for treatment from September 2019 to September 2020, and it is the growth of waits over the national target 36 weeks that have increased ninefold, a trend which has been seen in all areas of the UK.

StatsWales                                                  

Amendment 2 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete point 4 and replace with:

Regrets that Wales, the UK, and the world will be living with the effects of COVID-19 for many years.

Notes that whilst covid remains in our community, NHS plans are focussed on balancing the safe delivery of COVID and non-COVID services.

Amendment 3 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete sub-point 5(a) and replace with:

Work with local clinicians to develop models of delivery which maximise all resources to deliver safe, quality care for both COVID and non-COVID pathways to local communities.

Amendment 4 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete sub-point 5(d) and replace with:

Continue to work with the cancer network and NHS to ensure cancer services are able to meet new and current demand, and agree how to deploy future investment to deliver on the agreed commitment for rapid diagnostic testing.

Amendment 5 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

In sub-point 5(e), delete “implement a” and replace with “continue our”.

Amendment 6 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new sub-points at end of point 5:

'conduct a review of performance against waiting time targets over the past decade to ensure that lessons are learned about management of waiting lists;

consider using the Nightingale hospitals where possible to provide extra capacity for patients recovering from surgery to help increase flow through the system.'

Minutes:

The item started at 17.23

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7489 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the BBC Wales Investigates report that showed a ten-fold increase in patients waiting for all treatments in the Welsh NHS compared to September 2019.

2. Further notes the warning from leading cancer experts and charities that 2,000 people could die because of COVID-related delays in the Welsh NHS.

3. Recognises the hard work, dedication and commitment of staff in the healthcare sector supporting patients not just with coronavirus but with a variety of conditions.

4. Regrets that the Minister for Health and Social Services has estimated that it would take a full parliamentary term to resume normal services and that it would be foolish to have a plan in place to tackle the waiting list backlog.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) immediately boost the use of COVID-free hospitals, as recommended by the Royal College of Surgeons and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine;

b) conduct an urgent review into how hospital patients in Wales are being discharged during the pandemic and implement those findings to tackle bottlenecks in hospitals, as recommended by the Royal College of Physicians;

c) significantly improve its testing regime to ramp up capacity and ensure that COVID-19 is isolated and kept out of Welsh hospitals;

d) introduce a cancer recovery plan, as seen elsewhere across the UK, and increase investment in the roll-out of rapid diagnostic centres across Wales; and

e) implement a nationwide campaign to ensure that people who suspect they have cancer, or need to go to hospital in an emergency, continue to do so.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

13

0

40

52

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete point 1 and replace with:

Notes that the Welsh statistics published on 19 November show an 11 per cent increase in the total numbers waiting for treatment from September 2019 to September 2020, and it is the growth of waits over the national target 36 weeks that have increased ninefold, a trend which has been seen in all areas of the UK.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

3

21

53

Amendment 1 was agreed.

Amendment 2  Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete point 4 and replace with:

Regrets that Wales, the UK, and the world will be living with the effects of COVID-19 for many years.

Notes that whilst covid remains in our community, NHS plans are focussed on balancing the safe delivery of COVID and non-COVID services

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

2

22

53

Amendment 2 was agreed.

Amendment 3 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete sub-point 5(a) and replace with:

Work with local clinicians to develop models of delivery which maximise all resources to deliver safe, quality care for both COVID and non-COVID pathways to local communities.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

3

21

53

Amendment 3 was agreed.

Amendment 4  Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete sub-point 5(d) and replace with:

Continue to work with the cancer network and NHS to ensure cancer services are able to meet new and current demand, and agree how to deploy future investment to deliver on the agreed commitment for rapid diagnostic testing.

A vote was taken on amendment 4:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

28

1

24

53

Amendment 4 was agreed.

Amendment 5    Rebecca Evans (Gower)

In sub-point 5(e), delete “implement a” and replace with “continue our”.

A vote was taken on amendment 5:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

3

21

53

Amendment 5 was agreed.

Amendment 6 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new sub-points at end of point 5:

'conduct a review of performance against waiting time targets over the past decade to ensure that lessons are learned about management of waiting lists;

consider using the Nightingale hospitals where possible to provide extra capacity for patients recovering from surgery to help increase flow through the system.'

A vote was taken on amendment 6:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

19

4

30

53

Amendment 6 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the Welsh statistics published on 19 November show an 11 per cent increase in the total numbers waiting for treatment from September 2019 to September 2020, and it is the growth of waits over the national target 36 weeks that have increased ninefold, a trend which has been seen in all areas of the UK.

2. Further notes the warning from leading cancer experts and charities that 2,000 people could die because of COVID-related delays in the Welsh NHS.

3. Recognises the hard work, dedication and commitment of staff in the healthcare sector supporting patients not just with coronavirus but with a variety of conditions.

4. Regrets that Wales, the UK, and the world will be living with the effects of COVID-19 for many years.

Notes that whilst COVID remains in our community, NHS plans are focussed on balancing the safe delivery of COVID and non-COVID services

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) work with local clinicians to develop models of delivery which maximise all resources to deliver safe, quality care for both COVID and non-COVID pathways to local communities;

b) conduct an urgent review into how hospital patients in Wales are being discharged during the pandemic and implement those findings to tackle bottlenecks in hospitals, as recommended by the Royal College of Physicians;

c) significantly improve its testing regime to ramp up capacity and ensure that COVID-19 is isolated and kept out of Welsh hospitals;

d) continue to work with the cancer network and NHS to ensure cancer services are able to meet new and current demand, and agree how to deploy future investment to deliver on the agreed commitment for rapid diagnostic testing; and

e) continue our nationwide campaign to ensure that people who suspect they have cancer, or need to go to hospital in an emergency, continue to do so.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

2

22

53

The motion as amended was agreed.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 18.23 proceedings were suspended to allow a technical break before voting time.

 

9.

Voting Time

Minutes:

The item started at 18.29

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

10.

Short Debate

NDM7488 David Rees (Aberavon)

Cancer services: a post-COVID-19 recovery plan.

Minutes:

The item started at 18.37

NDM7488 David Rees (Aberavon)

Cancer services: a post-COVID-19 recovery plan.