Agenda and minutes

Health and Social Care Committee (Hybrid) - Thursday, 28 November 2024 09.30

Venue: Committee Room 5 - Tŷ Hywel. View directions

Contact: Sarah Beasley 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 28/11/2024 - Health and Social Care Committee

Items
Expected timing No. Item

(09.30)

1.

Introductions, apologies, substitutions, and declarations of interest

Minutes:

1.1         The Chair welcomed Members to the meeting.

1.2         Apologies were received from John Griffiths MS, Carolyn Thomas MS attended in his place.

1.3         Mabon ap Gwynfor MS, declared an interest in that his wife works for a charity which is involved in areas covered by the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill.

 

(9.35)

2.

Paper(s) to note

2.1

Letter from Chair of Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee to Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding regulations to implement Part 4 of and Schedule 3 to the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

2.1 The Committee noted the letter.

2.2

Letter from Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to the Chair of Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee regarding regulations to implement Part 4 of and Schedule 3 to the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

2.2 The Committee noted the letter.

2.3

Letter from Advocacy Support Cymru to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding advocacy funding provision within Wales

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

2.3 The Committee noted the letter.

(9:35-15.30)

3.

Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill: Stage 2 proceedings

On 13 November 2024, the Health and Social Care Committee agreed, under Standing Order 26.21, that the order of consideration for Stage 2 proceedings would be: sections 2-13;  section 1; sections 14-22, Schedule 1, sections 24-25, Schedule 2, section 26, section 23, sections 27-30, Long Title.

 

Attending on behalf of the Welsh Government will be:

 

Dawn Bowden MS - Minister for Children and Social Care

Anthony Jordan - Head of Programme and Legislative Implementation, Social Services and Integration Directorate

Mike Lubienski - Senior Lawyer

John Spence - Bill Manager, Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill

 

 

Supporting documents:

Marshalled List of Amendments

Grouping of Amendments

Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill (as introduced)

Explanatory Memorandum

 

 

 

Minutes:

3.1 In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee disposed of the following amendments to the Bill:

Amendment 9 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 1 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 44 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 44 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 62 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Russell George

Mabon ap Gwynfor

 

Sam Rowlands

Lesley Griffiths

 

Carolyn Thomas

 

 

Joyce Watson

 

Amendment 62 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 63 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Russell George

Mabon ap Gwynfor

 

Sam Rowlands

Lesley Griffiths

 

Carolyn Thomas

 

 

Joyce Watson

 

Amendment 63 was not agreed.

 

 

Amendment 65 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Russell George

Mabon ap Gwynfor

 

Sam Rowlands

Lesley Griffiths

 

Carolyn Thomas

 

 

Joyce Watson

 

Amendment 65 was not agreed.

 

As amendment 65 was not agreed, amendment 64 (Altaf Hussain MS) fell.

Amendment 66 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Russell George

Mabon ap Gwynfor

 

Sam Rowlands

Lesley Griffiths

 

Carolyn Thomas

 

 

Joyce Watson

 

Amendment 66 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 67 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Russell George

Mabon ap Gwynfor

 

Sam Rowlands

Lesley Griffiths

 

Carolyn Thomas

 

 

Joyce Watson

 

Amendment 67 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 10 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 56 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 56 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 68 (Altaf Hussain MS) was withdrawn.

Amendment 2 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 3 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 69 (Altaf Hussain MS) was not moved.

 

Amendment 45 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 45 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 11 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 4 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 57 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 57 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 5 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 70 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 70 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 71 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 71 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 72 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 72 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 12 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 6 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 13 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 14 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 7 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 46 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 46 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 15 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 58 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 58 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 16 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 17 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 47 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 47 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 48 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 48 was not agreed.

 

As amendments 47 and 48 were not agreed, amendment 49 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS) fell.

Amendment 18 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 19 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 20 (Dawn Bowden MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Russell George

Lesley Griffiths

Sam Rowlands

Carolyn Thomas

 

Joyce Watson

 

 

Amendment 20 was agreed.

 

 

Amendment 50 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 50 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 51 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 51 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 52 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 52 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 75 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 75 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 76 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 76 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 59 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 59 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 77 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 77 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 21 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 22 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 23 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 24 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 25 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 26 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 78 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 78 was not agreed.

 

As amendment 59 was not agreed, amendment 60 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS) fell.

Amendment 31 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 32 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

As amendment 56 was not agreed, amendment 61 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS) fell.

As amendment 65 was not agreed, amendment 98 (Altaf Hussain MS) fell.

Amendment 99 (Altaf Hussain MS) was not moved.

Amendment 8 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 33 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 34 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 35 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 36 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 37 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 38 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 39 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 40 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 53 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 53 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 84 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 84 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 79 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 79 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 80 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 80 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 81 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 81 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 82 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 82 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 83 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 83 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 54 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 54 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 85 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 85 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 27 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

As amendment 54 was not agreed, amendment 55 (Mabon ap Gwynfor MS) fell.

As amendment 85 was not agreed, amendment 86 (Altaf Hussain MS) fell.

 

Amendment 87 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 87 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 88 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 88 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 89 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 89 was not agreed.

 

 Amendment 90 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 90 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 91 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 91 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 92 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 92 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 28 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 41 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 42 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 43 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 93 (Altaf Hussain MS)

In Favour

Against

Abstain

Mabon ap Gwynfor

Lesley Griffiths

 

Russell George

Carolyn Thomas

 

Sam Rowlands

Joyce Watson

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 93 was not agreed.

 

As amendment 77 was not agreed, amendment 94 (Altaf Hussain MS) fell.

Amendment 95 (Altaf Hussain MS) was not moved.

Amendment 29 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 30 (Dawn Bowden MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

As amendment 93 was not agreed, amendment 96 (Altaf Hussain MS) fell.

Amendment 97 (Altaf Hussain MS) was not moved.

 

 

Topics

Helpful Links

Related