Agenda and minutes

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 13.30

The first 8 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary after question 2.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 14.20

The first 8 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary after question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 15.16

All 5 questions were asked.

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care

Altaf Hussain (South Wales West): Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on flooding issues at Princess of Wales Hospital?

To ask the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government

Peter Fox (Monmouth): What discussions is the Cabinet Secretary having with the Welsh Local Government Association and councils regarding a £540 million budget shortfall facing councils and their ability to deliver essential services, leading to many councils facing bankruptcy?

The item started at 15.38

Answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care

Altaf Hussain (South Wales West): Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on flooding issues at Princess of Wales Hospital?

Answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government

Peter Fox (Monmouth): What discussions is the Cabinet Secretary having with the Welsh Local Government Association and councils regarding a £540 million budget shortfall facing councils and their ability to deliver essential services, leading to many councils facing bankruptcy?

The item started at 15.59

Mike Hedges made a statement on - Initiative providing of critical bleed kits alongside defibrillators in West Glamorgan.

Heledd Fychan made a statement on - Gŵyl Morfydd Llwyn Owen, a festival held in Pontypridd and Treforest (11-13 October).

Cefin Campbell made a statement on - 50 years since Pobol y Cwm was first broadcast (16 October).

NDM8694 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.5:

1. Establishes a Future Senedd Committee. 

2. Agrees that the remit of the Committee is to consider and report by 9 May 2025 on three matters:

a) the organisation of business in the Seventh Senedd, with the objective of identifying options that increase the effectiveness of its scrutiny activity, the efficiency of its day-to-day delivery of business, and the accessibility of parliamentary business to Members;

b) solutions to barriers (real and perceived) which may, or have the potential to, impede the Senedd’s ability to represent people of all backgrounds, life experiences, preferences and beliefs, including consideration of the draft and final diversity and inclusion guidance for political parties; and

c) the thresholds currently set in Standing Orders for the number of Members required for various purposes, including (but not restricted to) the formation of political groups, removal of office holders, and quorum.

3. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S shall not apply in relation to the Future Senedd Committee.

4. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) Julie James MS (Welsh Labour), Alun Davies MS (Welsh Labour), Darren Millar MS (Welsh Conservatives) and Heledd Fychan MS (Plaid Cymru) as members of the Future Senedd Committee; and

b) David Rees (Deputy Presiding Officer) as Chair of the Future Senedd Committee.

5. In accordance with Standing Order 33.6, suspends the first part of Standing Order 17.37 in relation to the Future Senedd Committee, and agrees that the chair of the Committee may only vote in the exercise of a casting vote.

The item started at 16.04

NDM8694 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.5:

1. Establishes a Future Senedd Committee. 

2. Agrees that the remit of the Committee is to consider and report by 9 May 2025 on three matters:

a) the organisation of business in the Seventh Senedd, with the objective of identifying options that increase the effectiveness of its scrutiny activity, the efficiency of its day-to-day delivery of business, and the accessibility of parliamentary business to Members;

b) solutions to barriers (real and perceived) which may, or have the potential to, impede the Senedd’s ability to represent people of all backgrounds, life experiences, preferences and beliefs, including consideration of the draft and final diversity and inclusion guidance for political parties; and

c) the thresholds currently set in Standing Orders for the number of Members required for various purposes, including (but not restricted to) the formation of political groups, removal of office holders, and quorum.

3. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S shall not apply in relation to the Future Senedd Committee.

4. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) Julie James MS (Welsh Labour), Alun Davies MS (Welsh Labour), Darren Millar MS (Welsh Conservatives) and Heledd Fychan MS (Plaid Cymru) as members of the Future Senedd Committee; and

b) David Rees (Deputy Presiding Officer) as Chair of the Future Senedd Committee.

5. In accordance with Standing Order 33.6, suspends the first part of Standing Order 17.37 in relation to the Future Senedd Committee, and agrees that the chair of the Committee may only vote in the exercise of a casting vote.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8687 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill on introducing a presumption in planning processes against approving quarry development in close proximity to settlements.

2. Notes that the purpose of the Bill would be to:

a) require the risks of proposed quarrying sites to the environment and biodiversity, and to public health, to be assessed as part of the planning process;

b) set a mandatory buffer zone of 1,000 metres for all new and existing quarries; and

c) provide that the decision on a planning application for quarry development may only be made by the relevant Welsh Government Minister, with consideration given to the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.

The item started at 16.12

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM8687 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd: 

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill on introducing a presumption in planning processes against approving quarry development in close proximity to settlements.

2. Notes that the purpose of the Bill would be to:

a) require the risks of proposed quarrying sites to the environment and biodiversity, and to public health, to be assessed as part of the planning process;

b) set a mandatory buffer zone of 1,000 metres for all new and existing quarries; and

c) provide that the decision on a planning application for quarry development may only be made by the relevant Welsh Government Minister, with consideration given to the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.

The result was as follows:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
14	15	18	47

The motion was not agreed.

NDM8690 Buffy Williams (Rhondda)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Children, Young People and Education Committee ‘Implementation of Education reforms: Interim Report’ which was laid in the Table Office on 16 July 2024.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 9 October 2024.

The item started at 16.46

NDM8690 Buffy Williams (Rhondda)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Children, Young People and Education Committee ‘Implementation of Education reforms: Interim Report’ which was laid in the Table Office on 16 July 2024.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 9 October 2024.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8692 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the valuable contribution that council-owned farms play in supporting food production and enabling young entrants into farming.

2. Regrets that selling council-owned farms risks reducing Wales’s food security and traditional farming practices, causing a shifting towards less sustainable practices.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to impose a moratorium on the sale of council-owned farms owned by local authorities in Wales.

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 2 and 3 and replace with:

Welcomes that the proposed sustainable farming scheme will be accessible to and will support farmers on council-owned farms.

Notes that the management of council-owned farms is ultimately a matter for Welsh local authorities.

The item started at 17.37

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8692 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the valuable contribution that council-owned farms play in supporting food production and enabling young entrants into farming.

2. Regrets that selling council-owned farms risks reducing Wales’s food security and traditional farming practices, causing a shifting towards less sustainable practices.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to impose a moratorium on the sale of council-owned farms owned by local authorities in Wales.

For	Abstain	Against	Total
22	0	25	47

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 2 and 3 and replace with:

Welcomes that the proposed sustainable farming scheme will be accessible to and will support farmers on council-owned farms.

Notes that the management of council-owned farms is ultimately a matter for Welsh local authorities.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
25	0	22	47

Amendment 1 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the valuable contribution that council-owned farms play in supporting food production and enabling young entrants into farming.

2. Welcomes that the proposed sustainable farming scheme will be accessible to and will support farmers on council-owned farms.

3. Notes that the management of council-owned farms is ultimately a matter for Welsh local authorities.

For	Abstain	Against	Total
25	9	13	47

The motion as amended was agreed.

NDM8693 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the 2022 PISA results that found that reading scores in Wales were the worst in the United Kingdom, and well below the OECD average.

2. Regrets that 20 per cent of children in Wales are functionally illiterate at the time they enter secondary school.

3. Recognises that the system of cueing to teach reading was banned in England in 2005, over concerns it could undermine efforts to teach pupils to read, but this has still not happened in Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) immediately issue guidance to ensure and advocate that schools and teachers use the phonics method of teaching reading to improve performance; and

b) urgently bring forward reading testing regimes, as seen in other parts of the United Kingdom, to drive up reading standards.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports:

a) boosting reading standards as part of the Welsh Government’s priority to boost standards in schools and colleges;

b) embedding literacy across all areas of learning as part of the Curriculum for Wales;

c) taking action to improve the teaching of reading, including making the wording of guidance clearer where needed; and

d) using personalised assessments to support learner progress in reading and to track improvements nationally.

2. Notes that expectations on the importance of phonics are already set out in the Curriculum for Wales statutory guidance.

3. Recognises that decisions about the teaching of reading must always be guided by the best interests of the learner.

Curriculum for Wales statutory guidance

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Delete points 3 and 4 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) immediately issue guidance to ensure that the phonics method is at the forefront of teaching reading to improve performance;

b) conduct an ongoing review of the latest expert evidence and compare with good practice in other countries to ensure the most effective methods of teaching reading skills;

c) reaffirm its target of achieving 500 points in all three areas assessed by PISA, including reading skills, and publish a new strategy, with measurable milestones, to achieve this; and

d) assess why the PISA results, including reading skills, of pupils in disadvantaged areas are lower than those of pupils in similar communities in England.

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at the end of motion:

Regrets that the Government has failed to meet its most recent target of securing 500 points in each of the three areas assessed by PISA by 2022, including reading skills, after failing to meet the original target for Wales to be among the top 20 countries on the PISA list.

The item started at 18.10

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8693 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the 2022 PISA results that found that reading scores in Wales were the worst in the United Kingdom, and well below the OECD average.

2. Regrets that 20 per cent of children in Wales are functionally illiterate at the time they enter secondary school.

3. Recognises that the system of cueing to teach reading was banned in England in 2005, over concerns it could undermine efforts to teach pupils to read, but this has still not happened in Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) immediately issue guidance to ensure and advocate that schools and teachers use the phonics method of teaching reading to improve performance; and

b) urgently bring forward reading testing regimes, as seen in other parts of the United Kingdom, to drive up reading standards.

For	Abstain	Against	Total
13	0	34	47

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports:

a) boosting reading standards as part of the Welsh Government’s priority to boost standards in schools and colleges;

b) embedding literacy across all areas of learning as part of the Curriculum for Wales;

c) taking action to improve the teaching of reading, including making the wording of guidance clearer where needed; and

d) using personalised assessments to support learner progress in reading and to track improvements nationally.

2. Notes that expectations on the importance of phonics are already set out in the Curriculum for Wales statutory guidance.

3. Recognises that decisions about the teaching of reading must always be guided by the best interests of the learner.

Curriculum for Wales statutory guidance

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
25	0	22	47

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As amendment 1 was agreed, amendment 2 was de-selected.

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at the end of motion:

Regrets that the Government has failed to meet its most recent target of securing 500 points in each of the three areas assessed by PISA by 2022, including reading skills, after failing to meet the original target for Wales to be among the top 20 countries on the PISA list.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
23	0	24	47

Amendment 3 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports:

a) boosting reading standards as part of the Welsh Government’s priority to boost standards in schools and colleges;

b) embedding literacy across all areas of learning as part of the Curriculum for Wales;

c) taking action to improve the teaching of reading, including making the wording of guidance clearer where needed; and

d) using personalised assessments to support learner progress in reading and to track improvements nationally.

2. Notes that expectations on the importance of phonics are already set out in the Curriculum for Wales statutory guidance.

3. Recognises that decisions about the teaching of reading must always be guided by the best interests of the learner.

For	Abstain	Against	Total
25	9	13	47

The motion as amended was agreed.

The item started at 18.40

NDM8691 Buffy Williams (Rhondda)

Ensuring all children can thrive: celebrating alternative education in Wales 

The item started at 18.45

NDM8691 Buffy Williams (Rhondda)

Ensuring all children can thrive: celebrating alternative education in Wales