Agenda and minutes

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 3.

View Questions

The item started at 13.30

Question 1 was withdrawn. Questions 2-9 were asked. Questions 3 and 5 were grouped together for answer. Questions 2-6 were answered by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 3.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 3.

View Questions

The item started at 14.32

Question 1 was withdrawn. Questions 2-9 were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 3.

At 15.15, Sam Rowlands raised a Point of Order concerning remarks made by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language regarding previous decisions over school budgets in Conwy. The Deputy Presiding Officer indicated that the Member's clarification was now on the record.

No Topical Questions have been accepted

No Topical Questions were accepted

The item started at 15.17

Peter Fox made a statement on - A celebration of the 25th anniversary of Tŷ Hafan.

Janet Finch-Saunders made a statement on - Sylvia Harper and Holly Morgan have released a series of books covering topics such as deafness, blindness, autism and ADHD, that try to create a better understanding between children with special needs and those without.

NDM8488 Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee titled “Inquiry into UK-EU governance”, which was laid in the Table Office on 27 November 2023.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 14 February 2024.

Supporting documents

Response of the Senedd Commission to the report

The item started at 15.20

NDM8488 Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee titled “Inquiry into UK-EU governance”, which was laid in the Table Office on 27 November 2023.

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 14 February 2024.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8489 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the work and dedication of hardworking staff at the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board.

2. Notes that:

a) 27 February 2024 marks one year since Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board was placed back into special measures;

b) the health board was previously subject to special measures between 8 June 2015 and 24 November 2020, less than 6 months prior to the 2021 Senedd elections; and

c) the health board has spent longer in special measures than any other NHS organisation in the history of the National Health Service.

3. Regrets that since being placed into special measures, patients and staff are yet to see the required improvements.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) listen to the concerns of healthcare professionals when concerns are raised about the quality of services; and

b) ensure patients in North Wales get the timely, high-quality healthcare that they deserve.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after 2(a) and replace with:

any decision to escalate or de-escalate an NHS organisation must be based on a proper consideration of an extensive range of factors and factual evidence;

Further notes that:

a) the recent Audit Wales follow-up review of Board effectiveness recognised improved board stability and concluded that the dysfunctionality within the board described in its previous report is no longer evident; and

b) performance for planned care has improved since February 2023, with a 1.5 percentage point improvement against the 26-week target, a 15.5 per cent reduction in the number of people waiting over 52 weeks for a first outpatient appointment and the lowest number of people with total waits over 104 weeks since August 2021.

Acknowledges that:

a) the Welsh Government recognises significant challenges remain; and

b) the Welsh Government continues to support the health board and hold it to account to ensure it listens to the concerns of healthcare professionals when concerns are raised about the quality of services and delivers the timely, high-quality healthcare that patients in North Wales deserve.

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new sub-point at the end of point 4:

publish a clear de-escalation process, explaining who will contribute to the de-escalation process and who would make the final decision, while also providing an explanation of the decision;

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Welcomes the appointment of Dyfed Edwards as the new Chair of the Health Board and further calls on the Welsh Government to provide a clear timetable for the appointment of a full complement of executive directors and independent members.

The item started at 16.13

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8489 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the work and dedication of hardworking staff at the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board.

2. Notes that:

a) 27 February 2024 marks one year since Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board was placed back into special measures;

b) the health board was previously subject to special measures between 8 June 2015 and 24 November 2020, less than 6 months prior to the 2021 Senedd elections; and

c) the health board has spent longer in special measures than any other NHS organisation in the history of the National Health Service.

3. Regrets that since being placed into special measures, patients and staff are yet to see the required improvements.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) listen to the concerns of healthcare professionals when concerns are raised about the quality of services; and

b) ensure patients in North Wales get the timely, high-quality healthcare that they deserve.

For	Abstain	Against	Total
16	0	37	53

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after 2(a) and replace with:

any decision to escalate or de-escalate an NHS organisation must be based on a proper consideration of an extensive range of factors and factual evidence;

Further notes that:

a) the recent Audit Wales follow-up review of Board effectiveness recognised improved board stability and concluded that the dysfunctionality within the board described in its previous report is no longer evident; and

b) performance for planned care has improved since February 2023, with a 1.5 percentage point improvement against the 26-week target, a 15.5 per cent reduction in the number of people waiting over 52 weeks for a first outpatient appointment and the lowest number of people with total waits over 104 weeks since August 2021.

Acknowledges that:

a) the Welsh Government recognises significant challenges remain; and

b) the Welsh Government continues to support the health board and hold it to account to ensure it listens to the concerns of healthcare professionals when concerns are raised about the quality of services and delivers the timely, high-quality healthcare that patients in North Wales deserve.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
27	0	28	55

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new sub-point at the end of point 4:

publish a clear de-escalation process, explaining who will contribute to the de-escalation process and who would make the final decision, while also providing an explanation of the decision;

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
27	0	28	55

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Welcomes the appointment of Dyfed Edwards as the new Chair of the Health Board and further calls on the Welsh Government to provide a clear timetable for the appointment of a full complement of executive directors and independent members.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
27	0	28	55

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

NDM8483 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Module 2B of the UK Covid Inquiry will hear evidence in Wales between 27 February 2024 and 14 March 2024.

2. Believes that:

a) Module 2B of the UK Covid inquiry: ‘Core political and administrative decision making in Wales’ is insufficient to enable the Welsh Government and other agencies to learn the lessons from the response to the pandemic in Wales;

b) the core participant list for the UK Covid Inquiry hearings does not include the full range of relevant Welsh organisations;

c) the Wales COVID-19 Inquiry Special Purpose Committee cannot assess the full range of matters related to the Welsh Government’s handling of the pandemic;

d) failure to establish a Wales-specific Covid inquiry undermines devolution;

e) a Wales-specific Covid inquiry is a basic right for all who lost loved ones due to Covid.

3. Recognises the importance of the UK Covid Inquiry in identifying how decisions by the UK Government influenced the Covid response in Wales.

4. Regrets that the Welsh Government, unlike the Scottish Government, has not established a nation-specific Covid inquiry to fully examine the actions and decisions of the Welsh Government before, during and after the pandemic.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to establish a judge-led Wales Covid inquiry.

Supporters

Russell George (Montgomeryshire)

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Add as new point after point 2 and renumber accordingly:

Recognises that due to the Welsh Government’s refusal to set-up a Welsh Covid inquiry, the Senedd established a special committee to attempt to get answers for the families and friends of those who died during the pandemic.

The item started at 17.08

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8483 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Module 2B of the UK Covid Inquiry will hear evidence in Wales between 27 February 2024 and 14 March 2024.

2. Believes that:

a) Module 2B of the UK Covid inquiry: ‘Core political and administrative decision making in Wales’ is insufficient to enable the Welsh Government and other agencies to learn the lessons from the response to the pandemic in Wales;

b) the core participant list for the UK Covid Inquiry hearings does not include the full range of relevant Welsh organisations;

c) the Wales COVID-19 Inquiry Special Purpose Committee cannot assess the full range of matters related to the Welsh Government’s handling of the pandemic;

d) failure to establish a Wales-specific Covid inquiry undermines devolution;

e) a Wales specific Covid inquiry is a basic right for all who lost loved ones due to Covid.

3. Recognises the importance of the UK Covid Inquiry in identifying how decisions by the UK Government influenced the Covid response in Wales.

4. Regrets that the Welsh Government, unlike the Scottish Government, has not established a nation specific Covid inquiry to fully examine the actions and decisions of the Welsh Government before, during and after the pandemic.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to establish a judge-led Wales Covid inquiry.

Supporters

Russell George (Montgomeryshire)

For	Abstain	Against	Total
27	0	28	55

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the motion without amendment. Therefore, the motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendment was tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Add as new point after point (2) and renumber accordingly:

Recognises that due to the Welsh Government’s refusal to set-up a Welsh Covid inquiry, the Senedd established a special committee to attempt to get answers for the families and friends of those who died during the pandemic.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
16	0	38	54

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendment tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

The item started at 17.57

NDM8484 Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

The importance of Wales's voice in the campaign for peace - celebrating the hundredth anniversary of presenting the peace petition by the Women of Wales to President Coolidge and Wales's role in speaking up for peace today.

The item started at 18.02

NDM8484 Sioned Williams (South Wales West)

The importance of Wales's voice in the campaign for peace - celebrating the hundredth anniversary of presenting the peace petition by the Women of Wales to President Coolidge and Wales's role in speaking up for peace today.