Agenda and minutes

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 13.30

The first 8 questions were asked. Questions 2, 3 and 8 were answered by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Deputy Minister after question 2.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 14.31

Questions 1-4 and 6-8 were asked. Question 5 was not asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

To ask the Minister for Economy

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn): Will the Minister make a statement on any discussions the Welsh Government has had in relation to the future of the Gwynedd Shipping company?

To ask the Deputy Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales): Will the Minister make a statement responding to the unanimous recommendation of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee that the Welsh Government should have a formal role in the process of appointing a new Chairperson for S4C?

The item started at 15.14

Answered by the Minister for Economy

Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn): Will the Minister make a statement on any discussions the Welsh Government has had in relation to the future of the Gwynedd Shipping company?

Answered by the Deputy Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales): Will the Minister make a statement responding to the unanimous recommendation of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee that the Welsh Government should have a formal role in the process of appointing a new Chair for S4C?

No 90 Second Statements were received

NDM8370 Delyth Jewell (South Wales East)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill on climate assurance for children and young people. 

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to: 

a) amend the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Act 2021 to ensure the school curriculum includes an understanding of the severity and urgency of the climate crisis and ecological emergency as a key concept across all areas of learning and experience;

b) ensure the curriculum reflects the urgency and necessity of tackling the climate crisis and protecting the ecological environment;

c) ensure that such teaching is not confined to traditional subjects that cover this area, but is embedded across all areas of learning and experience;

d) recognise the importance of subliminal learning and promote a sustainable environment in which learning can take place; and

e) begin to address climate anxiety amongst children and young people.

The item started at 15.37

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM8370 Delyth Jewell (South Wales East)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill on climate assurance for children and young people. 

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to: 

a) amend the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Act 2021 to ensure the school curriculum includes an understanding of the severity and urgency of the climate crisis and ecological emergency as a key concept across all areas of learning and experience;

b) ensure the curriculum reflects the urgency and necessity of tackling the climate crisis and protecting the ecological environment;

c) ensure that such teaching is not confined to traditional subjects that cover this area, but is embedded across all areas of learning and experience;

d) recognise the importance of subliminal learning and promote a sustainable environment in which learning can take place; and

e) begin to address climate anxiety amongst children and young people.

The result was as follows:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
22	17	13	52

The motion was agreed.

 

NDM8452 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023.

2. Regrets that the report:

a) highlighted risks relating to emergency care, staffing concerns, poor patient flow and the accessibility of appointments;

b) states that there are often delays in patient discharges due to shortages in social care staff and social workers to assess discharge needs; and

c) did not find evidence of Welsh Government initiatives making a clear and significant difference to services at the front line.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) scrap cuts made to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales in the 2024-2025 draft budget, and expand their remit to investigate complaints;

b) establish a timetable with Healthcare Inspectorate Wales for the inspection of the nearly 60 per cent of healthcare services that have not been inspected in the last 5 years;

c) ensure the full Barnett consequential 20 per cent uplift for health is spent on the Welsh NHS; and

d) bring forward a substantial workforce plan with a tuition fee refund for healthcare workers that stay in Wales for five years after their studies.

Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after sub-point 2b) and replace with:

Appreciates the important work of HIW and notes the challenges identified.

Recognises the challenging financial position across the Welsh Government which continues to prioritise frontline care and staffing requirements in our NHS.

Notes the Welsh Government continues to work with healthcare providers using inspections to learn and improve.

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

In point 3, delete sub-point c), and replace with:

formally request from the UK Government a comprehensive review of the Barnett Formula to ensure fair funding for all budget areas in Wales, including health and social care;

Amendment 3 Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Add as new sub-point at the end of point 3:

increase the availability of degree apprenticeships in the healthcare sector to provide greater opportunities for young people to enter the profession and remain in Wales to work.

The item started at 15.55

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8452 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023.

2. Regrets that the report:

a) highlighted risks relating to emergency care, staffing concerns, poor patient flow and the accessibility of appointments;

b) states that there are often delays in patient discharges due to shortages in social care staff and social workers to assess discharge needs; and

c) did not find evidence of Welsh Government initiatives making a clear and significant difference to services at the front line.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) scrap cuts made to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales in the 2024-2025 draft budget, and expand their remit to investigate complaints;

b) establish a timetable with Healthcare Inspectorate Wales for the inspection of the nearly 60 per cent of healthcare services that have not been inspected in the last 5 years;

c) ensure the full Barnett consequential 20 per cent uplift for health is spent on the Welsh NHS; and

d) bring forward a substantial workforce plan with a tuition fee refund for healthcare workers that stay in Wales for five years after their studies.

Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023

For	Abstain	Against	Total
14	0	38	52

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after sub-point 2b) and replace with:

Appreciates the important work of HIW and notes the challenges identified.

Recognises the challenging financial position across the Welsh Government which continues to prioritise frontline care and staffing requirements in our NHS.

Notes the Welsh Government continues to work with healthcare providers using inspections to learn and improve.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
26	0	27	53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

In point 3, delete sub-point c), and replace with:

formally request from the UK Government a comprehensive review of the Barnett Formula to ensure fair funding for all budget areas in Wales, including health and social care;

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
38	0	14	52

Amendment 2 was agreed.

Amendment 3 Mabon ap Gwynfor (Dwyfor Meirionnydd)

Add as new sub-point at the end of point 3:

increase the availability of degree apprenticeships in the healthcare sector to provide greater opportunities for young people to enter the profession and remain in Wales to work.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
52	0	0	52

Amendment 3 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM8452 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023.

2. Regrets that the report:

a) highlighted risks relating to emergency care, staffing concerns, poor patient flow and the accessibility of appointments;

b) states that there are often delays in patient discharges due to shortages in social care staff and social workers to assess discharge needs; and

c) did not find evidence of Welsh Government initiatives making a clear and significant difference to services at the front line.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) scrap cuts made to Healthcare Inspectorate Wales in the 2024-2025 draft budget, and expand their remit to investigate complaints;

b) establish a timetable with Healthcare Inspectorate Wales for the inspection of the nearly 60 per cent of healthcare services that have not been inspected in the last 5 years;

c) formally request from the UK Government a comprehensive review of the Barnett Formula to ensure fair funding for all budget areas in Wales, including health and social care;

d) bring forward a substantial workforce plan with a tuition fee refund for healthcare workers that stay in Wales for five years after their studies; and

e) increase the availability of degree apprenticeships in the healthcare sector to provide greater opportunities for young people to enter the profession and remain in Wales to work.

Healthcare Inspectorate Wales Annual Report 2022-2023

For	Abstain	Against	Total
12	0	40	52

The motion as amended was not agreed.

 

NDM8451 Luke Fletcher (South Wales West)

To propose that this Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) that approximately 80 per cent of small firms in Wales struggled to recruit in the past 12 months due to skills shortages;

b) the skills gap across economic sectors in Wales outlined in recent Employer Skills Surveys; and

c) the Welsh Government’s target to create 125,000 all-age apprenticeships by the end of the current Senedd term. 

2. Regrets:

a) that over halfway through the current Senedd term, less than a third of the Welsh Government’s target has been achieved;

b) the estimated 24.5 per cent reduction in funding for the Welsh Government’s apprenticeship programme which will result in 10,000 fewer apprenticeship starts in 2024-25; and

c) that as a result of funding reductions, the Welsh Government is failing its economic mission to back young people to achieve ambitious futures in Wales.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) establish a sustainable long-term funding model for apprenticeships;

b) rule out the introduction of tuition fees for degree apprenticeships in Wales; and

c) commission an independent evaluation of the feasibility of meeting its target for all-age apprenticeships by 2026.  

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) that small businesses across Wales access a range of Welsh Government-funded employment, skills and business support to meet recruitment challenges in a volatile labour market and low growth UK environment;

b) the skills gap that exists in economic sectors in Wales outlined in recent Employer Skills Surveys; and welcomes the Welsh Government’s emphasis on targeted support in those areas, including funding for personal learning accounts;

c) the Welsh Government’s target to create 125,000 all-age apprenticeships by the end of the current Senedd term and the impact cuts to the Welsh budget, the loss of European replacement funds and record inflation has on the business and public budgets required to deliver against estimates set prior to the multiple economic shocks which have emerged since 2021; and

d) that cuts to Wales’s budget, the loss of promised EU replacement funds and soaring inflation has undermined the Welsh Government’s economic mission and the implications this has for young people and their ability to achieve ambitious futures in Wales.

2. Welcomes:

a) that halfway through the current Senedd term, the Welsh Government has committed in excess of £400m in apprenticeships; and

b) the commitment to protecting the quality of apprenticeship delivery at a time of falling budgets and recognises the long term risks associated with reducing quality considerations in order to increase the number of apprenticeships delivered.

3. Notes the Welsh Government will:

a) continue to prioritise funding for apprenticeships against a backdrop of severe financial pressure;

b) support degree apprenticeships in Wales; and

c) work with the apprenticeship network to secure the best possible delivery outcomes.

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

In point 3, insert new sub-point after sub-point (a) and renumber accordingly:

expand apprenticeships, especially to degree level, to tackle skill shortages in core sectors including healthcare, renewable energy and digital technology;

Amendment 3 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

In point 3, insert as new sub-point after sub-point (a), and renumber accordingly:

allow for flexible entry points for degree apprenticeships, recognising an individual’s prior educational attainment;

The item started at 16.46

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8451 Luke Fletcher (South Wales West)

To propose that this Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) that approximately 80 per cent of small firms in Wales struggled to recruit in the past 12 months due to skills shortages;

b) the skills gap across economic sectors in Wales outlined in recent Employer Skills Surveys; and

c) the Welsh Government’s target to create 125,000 all-age apprenticeships by the end of the current Senedd term. 

2. Regrets:

a) that over halfway through the current Senedd term, less than a third of the Welsh Government’s target has been achieved;

b) the estimated 24.5 per cent reduction in funding for the Welsh Government’s apprenticeship programme which will result in 10,000 fewer apprenticeship starts in 2024-25; and

c) that as a result of funding reductions, the Welsh Government is failing its economic mission to back young people to achieve ambitious futures in Wales.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) establish a sustainable long-term funding model for apprenticeships;

b) rule out the introduction of tuition fees for degree apprenticeships in Wales; and

c) commission an independent evaluation of the feasibility of meeting its target for all-age apprenticeships by 2026.  

For	Abstain	Against	Total
12	0	40	52

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) that small businesses across Wales access a range of Welsh Government-funded employment, skills and business support to meet recruitment challenges in a volatile labour market and low growth UK environment;

b) the skills gap that exists in economic sectors in Wales outlined in recent Employer Skills Surveys; and welcomes the Welsh Government’s emphasis on targeted support in those areas, including funding for personal learning accounts;

c) the Welsh Government’s target to create 125,000 all-age apprenticeships by the end of the current Senedd term and the impact cuts to the Welsh budget, the loss of European replacement funds and record inflation has on the business and public budgets required to deliver against estimates set prior to the multiple economic shocks which have emerged since 2021; and

d) that cuts to Wales’s budget, the loss of promised EU replacement funds and soaring inflation has undermined the Welsh Government’s economic mission and the implications this has for young people and their ability to achieve ambitious futures in Wales.

2. Welcomes:

a) that halfway through the current Senedd term, the Welsh Government has committed in excess of £400m in apprenticeships; and

b) the commitment to protecting the quality of apprenticeship delivery at a time of falling budgets and recognises the long term risks associated with reducing quality considerations in order to increase the number of apprenticeships delivered.

3. Notes the Welsh Government will:

a) continue to prioritise funding for apprenticeships against a backdrop of severe financial pressure;

b) support degree apprenticeships in Wales; and

c) work with the apprenticeship network to secure the best possible delivery outcomes.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
26	0	27	53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

In point 3, insert new sub-point after sub-point (a) and renumber accordingly:

expand apprenticeships, especially to degree level, to tackle skill shortages in core sectors including healthcare, renewable energy and digital technology;

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
26	0	27	53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 3 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

In point 3, insert as new sub-point after sub-point (a), and renumber accordingly:

allow for flexible entry points for degree apprenticeships, recognising an individual’s prior educational attainment;

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
25	0	27	52

Amendment 3 was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

The item started at 17.52

NDM8453 Gareth Davies (Vale of Clwyd)

Structuring a social care system fit for a twenty-first century Wales.

The item started at 18.01

NDM8453 Gareth Davies (Vale of Clwyd)

Structuring a social care system fit for a twenty-first century Wales.