Agenda and minutes

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 13.30

The first 8 questions were asked. Questions 5 and 7 were answered by the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Cabinet Secretary after Question 2.

View Questions

The item started at 14.23

Questions 1-6 and 8 were asked. Questions 2 and 6 was answered by the Minister for Mental Health and Wellbeing. Question 7 was not asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister after question 2.

To ask the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs

James Evans (Brecon and Radnorshire): What discussions is the Cabinet Secretary having with Natural Resources Wales regarding their 2023-24 Annual Report and Accounts which include details of HMRC investigations into NRW's historic compliance with off-pay-roll working requirements, and the extent of the potential liability that may be owed?

To ask the Minister for Further and Higher Education

Cefin Campbell (Mid and West Wales): Will the Welsh Government explain the financial support available to at-risk Welsh universities, following the letter from the Minister for Further and Higher Education to Members of the Senedd on 16 October 2024?

The item started at 15.04

Answered by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs

James Evans (Brecon and Radnorshire): What discussions is the Cabinet Secretary having with Natural Resources Wales regarding their 2023-24 Annual Report and Accounts which include details of HMRC investigations into NRW's historic compliance with off-pay-roll working requirements, and the extent of the potential liability that may be owed?

Answered by the Minister for Further and Higher Education

Cefin Campbell (Mid and West Wales): Will the Welsh Government explain the financial support available to at-risk Welsh universities, following the letter from the Minister for Further and Higher Education to Members of the Senedd on 16 October 2024?

The item started at 15.34

Hannah Blythyn made a statement on - Daniel Owen Festival (19-25 October).

Sioned Williams made a statement on - The Neath Canal: a constant amongst change.

Rhys ab Owen made a statement on - 20 years of Côr Meibion Taf.

NDM8656 Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that responsibility for legislating to allow assisted dying is not devolved to Wales as it is currently a matter governed by criminal law.

2. Notes that if assisted dying were to be legalised, and given its responsibility for health and social care, the Welsh Government would require an in-depth understanding of any proposals.

3. Believes that adults of sound mind who are intolerably suffering from an incurable, physical condition and have a clear and settled wish to die should have the option of an assisted death, subject to robust safeguards.

4. Notes that a recent inquiry by the Westminster Health and Social Care Committee found that the introduction of assisted dying has been linked with an improvement in palliative care in several jurisdictions.

5. Notes that the Office of Health Economics found that even if they received the best possible palliative medicine, in England and Wales at least 5,000 per year would die without any effective pain relief in their final month.

6. Notes that public attitudes towards assisted dying have changed, with up to 88% of the public favouring a change in the law.

7. Notes that more than one suffering person a week from the UK now chooses to end their life at one of the Swiss end-of-life centres, yet many others who would choose the same cannot afford the high costs involved, often well over £10,000.

8. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) support the principles of assisted dying; and

b) support Westminster parliament to introduce a compassionate assisted dying law in England and Wales.

Co-submitters

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Adam Price (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

James Evans (Brecon and Radnorshire)

Supporters

Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

Jenny Rathbone (Cardiff Central)

Mick Antoniw (Pontypridd)

Rhys ab Owen (South Wales Central)

The item started at 15.39

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM8656 Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that responsibility for legislating to allow assisted dying is not devolved to Wales as it is currently a matter governed by criminal law.

2. Notes that if assisted dying were to be legalised, and given its responsibility for health and social care, the Welsh Government would require an in-depth understanding of any proposals.

3. Believes that adults of sound mind who are intolerably suffering from an incurable, physical condition and have a clear and settled wish to die should have the option of an assisted death, subject to robust safeguards.

4. Notes that a recent inquiry by the Westminster Health and Social Care Committee found that the introduction of assisted dying has been linked with an improvement in palliative care in several jurisdictions.

5. Notes that the Office of Health Economics found that even if they received the best possible palliative medicine, in England and Wales at least 5,000 per year would die without any effective pain relief in their final month.

6. Notes that public attitudes towards assisted dying have changed, with up to 88% of the public favouring a change in the law.

7. Notes that more than one suffering person a week from the UK now chooses to end their life at one of the Swiss end-of-life centres, yet many others who would choose the same cannot afford the high costs involved, often well over £10,000.

8. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) support the principles of assisted dying; and

b) support Westminster parliament to introduce a compassionate assisted dying law in England and Wales.

Co-submitters

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Adam Price (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr)

James Evans (Brecon and Radnorshire)

Supporters

Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

Jenny Rathbone (Cardiff Central)

Mick Antoniw (Pontypridd)

Rhys ab Owen (South Wales Central)

The result was as follows:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
19	9	26	54

The motion was not agreed.

 

NDM8702 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the Senedd notes:

1. The report of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on the Welsh Government’s proposals for a Sustainable Farming Scheme which was laid in the Table Office on 22 July 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 16 October 2024;

2. The report of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on Farming Connect which was laid in the Table Office on 27 June 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 16 October 2024; and

3. The report of the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee on Proposals for a Sustainable Farming Scheme which was laid in the Table Office on 22 July 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 11 September 2024.

Co-submitters

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

The item started at 17.01

NDM8702 Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

To propose that the Senedd notes:

1. The report of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on the Welsh Government’s proposals for a Sustainable Farming Scheme which was laid in the Table Office on 22 July 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 16 October 2024;

2. The report of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on Farming Connect which was laid in the Table Office on 27 June 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 16 October 2024; and

3. The report of the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee on Proposals for a Sustainable Farming Scheme which was laid in the Table Office on 22 July 2024, and to which the Welsh Government laid its response on 11 September 2024.

Co-submitters

Llyr Gruffydd (North Wales)

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8700 Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Petitions Committee, ‘A cashless society?: P-6-1335 Welsh Government should take steps to ensure vulnerable adults without bank cards can pay with cash’, which was laid in the Table Office on 21 June 2024

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 16 October 2024

Supporting documents

Committee report – Easy Read version

The item started at 18.31

NDM8700 Carolyn Thomas (North Wales)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Petitions Committee, ‘A cashless society?: P-6-1335 Welsh Government should take steps to ensure vulnerable adults without bank cards can pay with cash’, which was laid in the Table Office on 21 June 2024

Note: The response of the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 16 October 2024

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM8701 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the upcoming UK Government budget; and

b) the acutely challenging state of public finances, with the Welsh Government budget for the current financial year worth £700 million less in real terms compared to when it was first set.

2. Regrets that the UK Labour Government has refused:

a) to provide Wales with any consequential funding from the HS2 project;

b) to devolve the Crown Estate in Wales to ensure that profit from its assets goes directly into the Welsh budget; and

c) to replace the Barnett formula with a needs-based funding framework.

3. Regrets the failure of the "partnership of power" between the Welsh Labour Government and the UK Labour Government to deliver tangible benefits for Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to make urgent representations to the UK Labour Government, and publish the communication, requesting that the budget contains:

a) the reclassifying of HS2 as an England-only project;

b) a commitment that Wales receives £4 billion of HS2 consequentials, as Welsh Government Ministers and the Secretary of State for Wales have called for;

c) a commitment to devolve the Crown Estate as soon as possible, with relevant timescales;

d) a commitment to replacing the Barnett formula as soon as possible, with relevant timescales;

e) a commitment to restoring the winter fuel allowance for pensioners; and

f) a commitment to disposing of the two-child benefit cap. 

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the upcoming UK Government budget.

2 Regrets that the UK Labour Government has refused to: 

a) scrap the winter fuel payment cut, which will see around 400,000 households in Wales lose up to £300 per person; 

b) rule out any increase to national insurance contributions;

c) ensure Wales receives its consequentials from HS2; 

d) fund the electrification of the North Wales main line; and

e) introduce a new funding arrangement for Wales to replace the outdated Barnett formula. 

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to make urgent representations to the UK Labour Government, and publish the communication, requesting that the budget contains plans to: 

a) scrap the winter fuel payment cut;

b) ensure there is no increase to national insurance contributions;

c) enable Wales to receive its fair share of HS2 consequentials;

d) electrify the North Wales main line; and

e) scrap the outdated Barnett formula and replace it with a new needs-based funding formula that is fair, transparent and delivers for the people of Wales. 

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 2, 3 and 4 and replace with:

Recognises the financial position the UK Labour Government inherited from the previous UK Government is extremely challenging.

Acknowledges the election of the new UK Government is an opportunity to reset and improve inter-governmental relationships.

Notes the Welsh Government’s priorities for the UK Government autumn budget are:

a) increases in resource and capital spending over and above the level set by the previous UK Government;

b) additional budget flexibilities;

c) a joint programme of investment to address coal tips safety; and

d) a commitment to further discussions about funding in relation to HS2, and future rail infrastructure investment.

The item started at 19.01

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8701 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the upcoming UK Government budget; and

b) the acutely challenging state of public finances, with the Welsh Government budget for the current financial year worth £700 million less in real terms compared to when it was first set.

2. Regrets that the UK Labour Government has refused:

a) to provide Wales with any consequential funding from the HS2 project;

b) to devolve the Crown Estate in Wales to ensure that profit from its assets goes directly into the Welsh budget; and

c) to replace the Barnett formula with a needs-based funding framework.

3. Regrets the failure of the "partnership of power" between the Welsh Labour Government and the UK Labour Government to deliver tangible benefits for Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to make urgent representations to the UK Labour Government, and publish the communication, requesting that the budget contains:

a) the reclassifying of HS2 as an England-only project;

b) a commitment that Wales receives £4 billion of HS2 consequentials, as Welsh Government Ministers and the Secretary of State for Wales have called for;

c) a commitment to devolve the Crown Estate as soon as possible, with relevant timescales;

d) a commitment to replacing the Barnett formula as soon as possible, with relevant timescales;

e) a commitment to restoring the winter fuel allowance for pensioners; and

f) a commitment to disposing of the two-child benefit cap. 

For	Abstain	Against	Total
12	0	42	54

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the upcoming UK Government budget.

2 Regrets that the UK Labour Government has refused to: 

a) scrap the winter fuel payment cut, which will see around 400,000 households in Wales lose up to £300 per person; 

b) rule out any increase to national insurance contributions;

c) ensure Wales receives its consequentials from HS2; 

d) fund the electrification of the North Wales main line; and

e) introduce a new funding arrangement for Wales to replace the outdated Barnett formula. 

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to make urgent representations to the UK Labour Government, and publish the communication, requesting that the budget contains plans to: 

a) scrap the winter fuel payment cut;

b) ensure there is no increase to national insurance contributions;

c) enable Wales to receive its fair share of HS2 consequentials;

d) electrify the North Wales main line; and

e) scrap the outdated Barnett formula and replace it with a new needs-based funding formula that is fair, transparent and delivers for the people of Wales. 

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
15	10	29	54

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

Delete points 2, 3 and 4 and replace with:

Recognises the financial position the UK Labour Government inherited from the previous UK Government is extremely challenging.

Acknowledges the election of the new UK Government is an opportunity to reset and improve inter-governmental relationships.

Notes the Welsh Government’s priorities for the UK Government autumn budget are:

a) increases in resource and capital spending over and above the level set by the previous UK Government;

b) additional budget flexibilities;

c) a joint programme of investment to address coal tips safety; and

d) a commitment to further discussions about funding in relation to HS2, and future rail infrastructure investment.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For	Abstain	Against	Total
27	0	28	55

Amendment 2 was not agreed.

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Deputy Presiding Officer exercised his casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the motion was not agreed.

 

Ther item started at 20.07

NDM8699 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

The Welsh economy: structural problems and putting them right

The item started at 20.12

NDM8699 Mike Hedges (Swansea East)

The Welsh economy: structural problems and putting them right