Agenda and minutes

Venue: Committee Room 3 - Senedd. View directions

Contact: Fay Bowen 


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Transcript: Transcript for 01/04/2019 - Public Accounts Committee - Fifth Senedd

Expected timing No. Item



Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest


1.1        The Chair welcomed Members to the Committee.

(13.30 - 13.35)


Paper(s) to note


2.1 The papers were noted.


Scrutiny of Accounts 2017-18: Letter from the Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee (20 March 2019)

Supporting documents:


Committee working practices and procedures: Letter from the Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee (15 March 2019)

Supporting documents:


Management of follow up outpatients across Wales: Additional Information from Cardiff & Vale University Health Board (March 2019)

Supporting documents:

(13.35 - 15.00)


Management of follow up outpatients across Wales: Evidence Session with Royal National Institute for the Blind (RNIB) Cymru

Research Briefing

PAC(5)-10-19 Paper 1 – Paper from RNIB

PAC(5)-10-19 Paper 2 – RNIB patient study

PAC(5)-10-19 Paper 3 – Welsh Government Statement: Introduction of a new eye care digital system and transformational funding for eye care services (13 March 2019)


Ansley Workman, Director, RNIB Cymru

Elin Haf Edwards - External Affairs Manager, RNIB Cymru

Gareth Davies - Stakeholder Engagement Lead for Eye Health and patient representative, RNIB

Supporting documents:


3.1 Members received evidence from Ansley Workman, Director, Elin Haf Edwards, External Affairs Manager, and Gareth Davies, Stakeholder Engagement Lead for Eye Health and patient representative from RNIB Cymru, as part of the inquiry into Management of follow up outpatients across Wales.

3.2 RNIB Cymru agreed to send further information on:

·         Funding for Eye Clinic Liaison Officers in each health board;

·         Typical staffing structure of Ophthalmic Diagnostic and Treatment Centres; and

·         More information about the roll out of the e-referral electronic patient record and the information which is required to ensure the necessary steps are taken around imaging and technology to allow concerns about patients to be escalated to consultants



Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the meeting for the following business:

Item 5


4.1 The motion was agreed.

(15.00 - 15.30)


Management of follow up outpatients across Wales: Consideration of evidence received


5.1 Members considered the evidence received.


Committee working practices and procedures


6.1 Adam Price AM referred the Members to the recent decision made by the High Court in relation to the dismissal of Carl Sargeant. He expressed his concern that some questions remained in people’s minds on the Welsh Government’s judgement. As such, he proposed that the Public Accounts Committee request a copy of the leak investigation report, undertaken by the Permanent Secretary, with appropriate redactions. He was supported by Neil Hamilton AM and Mohammed Asghar AM.

6.2 Jenny Rathbone AM was not convinced that the Public Accounts Committee was the right Committee to request this document and asked for the discussion to be deferred to enable her to consider the High Court decision and take appropriate advice. Vikki Howells AM and Rhianon Passmore AM supported her.

6.3 Nick Ramsay AM, the Committee Chair, supported Jenny Rathbone’s suggestion and it was agreed that the item would be added to the agenda for the Committee meeting on 29 April.