Agenda and minutes

1.1        The Chair welcomed Members and members of the public to the meeting.

1.2        Apologies had been received from Julie Morgan for item 2.

PAC(4) 22-12 – Paper 1 – The Welsh Government’s management of its relationship with AWEMA

Anthony Barrett, Assistant Auditor General

Mike Usher, Group Director – Financial Audit, Wales Audit Office

Matthew Mortlock, Performance Audit Manager, Wales Audit Office

Mark Jones, Financial Audit Manager, Wales Audit Office

2.1 The Chair welcomed Anthony Barrett, Assistant Auditor General for Wales; Mike Usher, Group Director – Financial Audit; Matthew Mortlock, Performance Audit Manager; and Mark Jones, Financial Audit Manager.

2.2 The Committee discussed the findings of the WAO report.

Items 4 and 7.

Items 4 and 7.

4.1 The Committee discussed how it wished to handle the WAO report ‘The Welsh Government’s relationship with the All Wales Ethnic Minority Association’.

PAC(4) 22-12 – Paper 2 – Evidence from the Audit Commission

Martin Evans

5.1 The Committee took evidence from Martin Evans, Managing Director of Audit Policy, Audit Commission.

Jane Hutt AM, Minister for Finance and Leader of the House

Reg Kilpatrick, Director of Local Government & Public Service, Welsh Government

Nicola Charles, Lawyer, Welsh Government

6.1 The Committee took evidence from Jane Hutt, the Member in Charge of the Bill and Minister for Finance and Leader of the House; Reg Kilpatrick, Director of Local Government and Public Service, Welsh Government; and Nicola Charles, Legal Services, Welsh Government.

Action Point:

6.2 The Minister agreed to provide a supplementary note to the Committee on:

·         the inter-relationship between the Policy Authority and the Chief Constable;

·         examples of supervisory and executive board models operating in relation to key public functions in Wales;

·         how, under the provisions in the Bill, the AGW would continue to have the ability to put in place robust quality assurance arrangements that he/she considers necessary to remain compliant with International Auditing Standards.

7.1 The Committee considered the evidence provided by the Audit Commission and the Minister for Finance and Leader of the House as part of its Stage 1 scrutiny of the Public Audit (Wales) Bill.

Action point:

7.2 The Committee agreed to write to the Minister to seek further assurances on the following matters—

• that the WAO staff terms and conditions will be protected as a result of their transfer from the Auditor General’s employment to the new WAO and that the transfer arrangements will be fully compliant with TUPE terms;
• that the creation of the new WAO will not give rise to any additional tax liabilities;
• that the new arrangements will not prevent or inhibit the Auditor General from participating in the National Fraud Initiative.

PAC(4) 22-12 – Paper 3 - Correspondence from the Auditor General for Wales on Hospital Catering and Patient Nutrition

PAC(4) 22-12 – Paper 4 – Correspondence from the Welsh Government on the National Fraud Initiative

PAC(4) 22-12 – Paper 5 - Letter from the AGW re Estimate of Costs

Minutes of previous meeting

8.1 The Committee noted the correspondence from the Auditor General for Wales on Hospital Catering and Patient Nutrition.

8.2 The Committee noted the correspondence from the Welsh Government on the National Fraud Initiative.

8.3 The Committee noted the minutes of the previous meeting.

8.4 The Committee noted the letter from the Auditor General for Wales regarding the Public Audit (Wales) Bill and TUPE arrangements.

View the meeting transcript.