Meetings

The item started at 14.59

At the conclusion of Stage 3 the Member in Charge may propose that the Bill be passed in accordance with Standing Order 26.47.

Stage 4 Standing Order 26.47 motion to approve the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill

The item started at 17.59

At the conclusion of Stage 3 the Minister may propose that the Bill be passed in accordance with Standing Order 26.47. If the proposition is agreed:

Stage 4 Standing Order 26.47 motion to approve the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill.

The result was as follows:

The motion was agreed.

In accordance with Standing Order 26.36, amendments will be disposed of in the order which the sections and schedules to which they relate, arise in the Bill.

The amendments have been grouped for the purposes of debate and the groupings will be debated as follows:

1. Liability

11, 13

2. Palliative Care

4

3. Excluded Services

5, 6, 10

4. Timescale for Recovering Costs

7

5. Appeals and waivers

1, 2, 3

6. Use of Information

12

7. Use of Amounts Reimbursed

14, 15

8. Power to Suspend the Act

8, 9

Supporting documents:

Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill

Explanatory Memorandum

Marshalled List of Amendments

Grouping of Amendments

The item started at 16.55

In accordance with Standing Order 26.36, amendments will be disposed of in the order which the sections and schedules to which they relate, arise in the Bill.

The Amendments have been grouped for the purposes of debate and the groupings will be debated as follows:

1. Liability

11, 13

2. Palliative Care

4

3. Excluded Services

5, 6, 10

4. Timescale for Recovering Costs

7

5. Appeals and waivers

1, 2, 3

6. Use of Information

12

7. Use of Amounts Reimbursed

14, 15

8. Power to Suspend the Act

8, 9

Voting was taken in the order set out in the Marshalled List of Amendments.

Amendment 11 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

A vote was taken on Amendment 4:

Amendment 4 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on Amendment 5:

Amendment 5 was not agreed.

As amendment 5 was not agreed, amendments 6 and 10 fell.

A vote was taken on Amendment 7:

Amendment 7 was not agreed.

Amendment 1 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 2 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 3 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 12 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 13 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 14 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 15 was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

A vote was taken on Amendment 8:

Amendment 8 was not agreed.

As amendment 8 was not agreed, amendment 9 fell.

All sections and schedules of the Bill were deemed agreed, concluding Stage 3 proceedings.

At the conclusion of Stage 3 the Member in Charge may propose that the Bill be passed in accordance with Standing Order 26.47. If the proposition is agreed:

Stage 4 Standing Order 26.47 motion to approve the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill.

In accordance with Standing Order 26.36, amendments will be disposed of in the order which the sections and schedules to which they relate, arise in the Bill.

The amendments have been grouped for the purposes of debate and the groupings will be debated as follows:

1.  Palliative Care

4

2.  Excluded Services

5, 6, 10

3.  Timescale for Recovering Costs

7

4.  Appeals and waivers

1, 2, 3

5.  Power to Suspend the Act

8, 9

Supporting documents:

Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill

Explanatory Memorandum

Marshalled List of Amendments

Grouping of Amendments

4a.1 The Committee noted the letter from the Member in Charge to the Chair providing a supplementary note in response to recommendation 5 of the Committee’s Stage 1 report on the Bill.

Papers:

Marshalled List of Amendments, 24 April 2013

Groupings of Amendments, 24 April 2013

In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee will dispose of amendments to the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill in the following order:

Sections 1 – 21

Schedule 1

3.1 In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee disposed of amendments to the Bill in the following order:

Sections 1 – 21

Schedule 1

3.2 The Committee considered and disposed of the following amendments:

Section 1:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 2:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 3:

Amendment 9 (Darren Millar)

Amendment 10 (Darren Millar)

Amendment 3 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Section 4:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 5:
Amendment 11 (Darren Millar)

Section 6:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 7:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 8:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 9:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 10:
Amendment 4 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Section 11:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 12:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 13:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 14:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 15:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 16:
Amendment 12 (Darren Millar)

Amendment 1 (Mick Antoniw) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Amendment 6 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Amendment 5 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Amendment 13 (Darren Millar) was withdrawn.

Section 17:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 18:
Amendment 7 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Amendment 2 (Mick Antoniw) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Section 19:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Section 20:
Amendment 8 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed to, in accordance with Standing Order 17.34 (i).

Amendment 14 (Darren Millar) was withdrawn.

Section 21:
No amendments were tabled to this section, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

Schedule 1:
No amendments were tabled to Schedule 1, therefore it was deemed agreed to.

3.3 The Chair advised that all sections of the Bill had been agreed by the Committee and as all amendments had been disposed of, Stage 3 will commence from 25 April 2013.

3.4 Under standing order 26.27, Members agreed that the Member in Charge should prepare a revised Explanatory Memorandum.

NDM5190 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, for the purposes of any provisions resulting from the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill, agrees to any increase in expenditure of a kind referred to in Standing Order 26.69(ii), arising in consequence of the Bill.

The item started at 18.11

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM5190 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, for the purposes of any provisions resulting from the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill, agrees to any increase in expenditure of a kind referred to in Standing Order 26.69(ii), arising in consequence of the Bill.

The result was as follows:

The motion was agreed.

NDM5192 Mick Antoniw (Pontypridd)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 26.11:

Agrees to the general principles of the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill.

The Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill and Explanatory Memorandum were laid before the Assembly on 3 December 2012.

The report of the Health and Social Care Committee on the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill was laid before the Assembly on 7 March 2013.

Supporting Documents:
The Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill
Explanatory Memorandum
Health and Social Care Committee’s report
Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee’s report

The item started at 17.15

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM5192 Mick Antoniw (Pontypridd)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales in accordance with Standing Order 26.11:

Agrees to the general principles of the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill.

The Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill and Explanatory Memorandum were laid before the Assembly on 3 December 2012.

The report of the Health and Social Care Committee on the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill was laid before the Assembly on 7 March 2013.

The result was as follows:

The motion was agreed.

5.1 The Committee considered this item in private session.

CLA(4)-07-13(p5) – Final Draft Report

Private session

6.1 The Committee considered this item in private session.

CLA(4)-06-13(p3) – Draft Report

Member in Charge

Mick Antoniw AM, Member in charge of the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill

Vaughan Gething AM

Paul Davies, Associate of Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care

Joanest Jackson, Legal Adviser

Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases Bill (as introduced)

Explanatory Memorandum

6.1 The Committee took evidence from the Member in Charge of the Bill, Mick Antoniw AM, Vaughan Gething AM, Mr Paul Davies and Mrs Joanest Jackson.

5.1 The Committee considered this item in private session.

Tenovus

Dr Rachel Iredale, Director, Cancer Support Team

Miss Julia Yandle, Advice Services Manager

Swansea University, Swansea Centre for Health Economics, College of Human and Health Sciences

Professor Ceri Phillips BSc.(Econ), MSc. (Econ), PhD, Health Economist

Aneurin Bevan Health Board

Glyn Jones, Assistant Director of Finance (Operations)

2.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of Tenovus, Professor Ceri Phillips from Swansea Centre for Health Economics and Mr Glyn Jones, who represented Aneurin Bevan Health Board.

Minister for Health and Social Services

Lesley Griffiths AM, Minister for Health and Social Services;

Mark Osland, Deputy Director of Finance, DHSSG;

Fiona Davies, Legal Services.

2.1 The Committee took evidence from the Minister for Health and Social Services, Welsh Government. The Minister was accompanied by her officials.

HSC(4)-02-13 paper 1

Association of British Insurers

Nick Starling, Director of General Insurance, ABI;

Dominic Clayden, UK & Ireland Claims Director, Aviva;

Faye Glasspool, Director UK Legacy, RSA

2.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of  the Association for British Insurers.

2.2 The Chair asked that a copy of the letter that he had received from the Law Commission should be made available to the witnesses.

2.3 The Committee agreed that it would be helpful to have a paper from the Research Service on the 2002 Department of Health Consultation to which the witnesses had referred.

HSC(4)-02-13 paper 4

Marie Curie Cancer Care

Simon Jones, Head of Policy and Public Affairs, Wales

Marie Curie Hospice, Cardiff and the Vale

5.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of Marie Curie Cancer Care.

HSC(4)-02-13 paper 3

Association of Personal Injury Lawyers (APIL Wales)

Michael Imperato, APIL Wales Co-ordinator

4.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of the Association of Personal Injury Lawyers (APIL Wales).

HSC(4)-02-13 paper 2

Forum of Insurance lawyers 

Simon Cradick, Partner, Morgan Cole LLP representing the Forum of Insurance Litigators 

3.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of the Forum of Insurance lawyers

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 7

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 7 (annexe)

11.1 The Committee noted the letter.

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 3

Trade Unions

Unite Wales and GMB Wales & South West

Hannah Blythyn, Campaigns & Policy Co-ordinator for Unite Wales

Mike Payne, Regional Political Officer, GMB

6.1 The Committee took evidence from representatives of the GMB and UNITE Trade Unions.

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 1

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 2

Asbestos Awareness and Support Cymru

Joanne Barnes-Mannings, Community Outreach Officer

Lorna Johns, Strategic Research and Development Officer

Asbestos Victims Support Groups’ Forum UK

Tony Whitston, Chair, Asbestos Victims Support Groups Forum - UK

Marie Hughes, Mesothelioma Support (Greater Manchester Asbestos Victims Support Group)

5.1 The Committee took evidence from the representatives of Asbestos Awareness and Support Cymru and Asbestos Victims Support Groups’ Forum UK.

Mick Antoniw AM, Member in charge of the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill

Vaughan Gething AM

Paul Davies, Associate of Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care

Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill, as introduced

Explanatory Memorandum

2.1 The Committee took evidence from the Member in Charge of the Bill, Mick Antoniw AM, Vaughan Gething AM, Mr Paul Davies and Mrs Joanest Jackson.

4.1 The Committee considered this item in private session.

The item started at 15:11

HSC(4)-33-12 paper 6

6.1 The Committee Chair referred to a letter he had received from the Presiding Officer indicating that, in her opinion, the Bill was within the legislative competence of the Assembly.  However, she also pointed out that her decision had been finely balanced in relation to some parts of the Bill. The Chair outlined the parts of the Bill concerned and that the letter would be circulated to Members in due course.

6.2 The Committee agreed that the issues raised by the Presiding Officer would need to be taken into account during the Stage 1 scrutiny process.  The Committee’s legal advisers were asked to provide further briefing on the issues raised by the Presiding Officer so that areas for questioning could be developed to help the Committee explore the issues with relevant witnesses.

6.3 The Committee then discussed its approach to Stage 1 scrutiny of the Recovery of Medical Costs for Asbestos Diseases (Wales) Bill.

6.4 The Committee was content with the general approach suggested in the Committee paper but was agreed that an additional question, regarding the National Assembly’s legislative competence, should be added to the consultation letter.

6.5 It was also agreed that representatives of cancer charities, Health Boards, the construction industry and organisations manufacturing asbestos should be considered as additional oral witnesses.

HSC(4)-30-12 paper 7

3.3 The Committee noted the letter.

3.4 Mick Antoniw informed the Committee that, as the Member in Charge of the Bill, he would not attend the Committee sessions at which the Bill would be considered.