Meetings

Business Committee considered the scrutiny arrangements for the Senedd Reform Bill and linked legislation and agreed the following:

• To table relevant motions to propose in Plenary on 12 July that the Senedd establishes a Reform Bill Committee with a remit to scrutinise Bills referred to it by the Business Committee;
• To allocate the chair of the Committee to the Labour group and for nominations for that position to be invited in Plenary on 12 July;
• That the Committee should be comprised of four members, including the Chair, (two Labour, one each from the Conservative and Plaid Cymru groups) and to record its preference that Jane Dodds be invited by the Chair to participate in meetings of the Committee as set out in Standing Order 17.49;
• That the general principles of the Senedd Reform Bill be referred to the new Reform Bill Committee for Stage 1 consideration;
• That the Reform Bill Committee be consulted on the proposed Bill timetable to inform a final decision by the Business Committee on the timetable at a future meeting.

Business Committee agreed to return to the issue of whether the proposed local government electoral administration bill should also be referred to the Reform Bill Committee in the autumn term.

Supporting documents:

FIN(6)-12-23 P5 – Financial implications of forthcoming legislation to reform the Senedd

4.1 The Committee considered the paper on the Financial implications of forthcoming legislation to reform the Senedd.

Business Committee noted the letter and that the Welsh Government will not incorporate changes to the title used for the Presiding and Deputy Presiding Officers in forthcoming legislation on Senedd Reform.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would provide a legal note on differences in the Senedd’s legislative competence to amend the name of the institution and the title of the Presiding and Deputy Presiding Officers.

Business Committee discussed a paper on a number of assumptions that will underpin the information required from the Senedd Commission to inform the Welsh Government’s development of the Regulatory Impact Assessment for a Senedd Reform Bill. Following discussion over the assumptions relating to the anticipated range of additional committees likely to be established by a future Senedd and the number of sitting weeks, Business Committee agreed to note the assumptions relating to Senedd business.

The Committee also agreed to consider a paper mapping out the high-level timescales for its own work relating to Senedd Reform over the remainder of this Senedd term at a future meeting. 

Business Committee considered and agreed the draft report, and for it to be laid and provided to the Welsh Government before the end of term, subject to two additions: to note Sian Gwenllian’s view that Senedd Reform legislation should contain only the Welsh titles of ‘Llywydd’ and ‘Dirprwy Lywydd’; and, to note the Llywydd’s view that an increased maximum number of Welsh Ministers should be set at 16.

Business Committee returned to its consideration of the size of the Welsh Government in a larger Senedd. A majority on the Committee agreed to a proposal from the Trefnydd that the maximum limit on the number of Welsh Ministers should be increased from 12 to 17 ministers as part of Senedd Reform legislation. The majority also agreed to a proposal by the Trefnydd that the legislation should include a mechanism which would enable the Welsh Government to propose a further increase to this limit, up to a maximum of 19, through secondary legislation, in circumstances where an increase is considered to be merited. Business Committee agreed that such an increase should be subject to an affirmative vote of the Senedd.

Darren Millar stated his view that the maximum number of Ministers should be 16, and that any further increase in the number of Ministers should be approved by two-thirds of Members voting.

Business Committee agreed to consider a report of their conclusions on the four matters that it has considered at a subsequent meeting.

Business Committee considered a paper consulting it on a number of assumptions that will underpin the information to be provided by the Senedd Commission to inform the Regulatory Impact Assessment for the Senedd Reform Bill. The Committee agreed that further consideration should be given to assumptions around the possible number of committees in a larger Senedd.  They also agreed that the assumptions and information which will be presented around Parliamentary activity should outline the range of activity carried out by the Senedd. They requested that a further paper be produced for discussion at a future meeting.

Business Committee returned to consideration of two recommendations made by the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform:

1.     The size of the Welsh Government in a larger Senedd

The Committee agreed to defer further discussion of this matter to the following meeting.

2.   The number of Deputy Presiding Officers in a larger Senedd

Further to the conclusion reached at the previous meeting - that Senedd Reform legislation should amend the current statutory provisions in the Government of Wales Act 2006 to provide for a revised limit of two Deputy Presiding Officers - Business Committee agreed that the legislation should require that Members elected to the roles of Presiding Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer should represent at least two party groups. The Committee also concluded that the legislation should state that, when the Senedd elects two Deputy Presiding Officers, these office holders should represent three different parties, where possible.

A majority of the Business Committee agreed to conclude that the legislation should amend the titles ‘Presiding Officer’ and ‘Deputy Presiding Officer’ to ‘Speaker’ and ‘Llywydd’, and ‘Deputy Speaker’ and ‘Dirprwy Lywydd’, subject to the Welsh Government giving consideration to whether the Senedd has legislative competence to do this. Siân Gwenllian and Jane Dodds noted that they favoured the use of ‘Llywydd’ and ‘Dirprwy Llywydd’ only in the legislation.

1.   The size of the Welsh Government in a larger Senedd (recommendation 4)

Business Committee discussed the evidence received and agreed, in principle, to conclude that Senedd Reform legislation should amend the current statutory provisions in the Government of Wales Act 2006 to provide for a different limit on the number of Welsh Ministers.

Business Committee agreed to return to a further discussion of the level of any minimum and/or maximum thresholds, and whether or not the legislation should include a range for the number of Welsh Ministers, at a subsequent meeting.

2.   The number of Deputy Presiding Officers in a larger Senedd

Business Committee concluded that Senedd Reform legislation should amend the current statutory provisions in the Government of Wales Act 2006 to provide for a limit of two Deputy Presiding Officers, instead of one as is currently the case.

Business Committee agreed to return to a further discussion on the matter of how the legislation should require there to be a political balance across the Llywydd and deputies, and which titles are used for those posts in the legislation.

3.   The number of Senedd Commissioners in a larger Senedd

Business Committee concluded that there should not be any change to the current statutory provisions on the number of Senedd Commissioners.

4.   The consequences of a Member changing their political party if elected through a closed proportional list system

Business Committee concluded that it would not recommend that the Senedd Reform legislation should introduce legislative consequences arising from a Member of the Senedd changing their political party between elections. Business Committee indicated that it would give further consideration to internal Senedd mechanisms relating to group membership when reviewing Standing Orders ahead of the next Senedd term.

Consultation responses

The Committee noted the paper.

The Committee noted the paper.

Business Committee discussed its approach to considering several recommendations made by the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform, with a view to providing conclusions to inform the development of policy instructions for a Bill on Senedd Reform by the Welsh Government.

Business Committee agreed to:

• consult with Members and Party Groups on the four recommendations: the size of the Welsh Government, the number of Deputy Presiding Officers and the number of Senedd Commissioners in a larger Senedd; and the consequences of a Member of the Senedd changing their political party between elections;
• invite views from stakeholders to inform its consideration of the above issues;
• invite views from the Llywydd and DPO on the number of Deputy Presiding Officers there should be in a larger Senedd;

• invite views from the Senedd Commission on the number of Senedd Commissioners there should be in a larger Senedd;
• request that the Welsh Government provides information about scoping and analysis that has been conducted on the number of Welsh Ministers in a larger Senedd and the issue of Members changing their political party between elections; and
• consider examples of how Members changing their political party between elections are dealt with in parliaments with comparable electoral systems.

Business Committee also agreed to hold a technical workshop with Senedd and Welsh Government officials prior to the autumn half-term recess. They agreed to consider these matters and the evidence received during the existing committee meeting slots in November. Meetings would be held in public where appropriate.