Meetings

PAC(4)-27-13 Paper 5

Gillian Body – Assistant Auditor General for Wales

Paul Dimblebee – Group Director, Wales Audit Office

8.1 The Committee noted the correspondence and the WAO’s intention to monitor how the Welsh Government updates and clarifies progress with implementing the Committee’s recommendations.

5.1 The Committee discussed legal issues associated with the Public Accounts Committee inquiry into the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

9.1 The Committee considered its draft report ‘The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen’ and agreed to consider final amendments to the draft report electronically.

9.2 The Committee would publish the report shortly.

5.1 Julie Morgan declared an interest in this item and left the meeting before discussions initiated.

5.2 The Committee considered its draft report ‘The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.’ The Committee agreed a number of changes to the report, and agreed to consider the report further at a forthcoming meeting.

6.1 The Committee discussed the Key themes and emerging issues of its inquiry into the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

6.2 The Committee agreed to consider its draft report on the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen at a forthcoming meeting.

5.1 Julie Morgan declared an interest for this item and would not be involved in discussion.

5.2 The Committee discussed the Key themes and emerging issues of its inquiry into the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

5.3 The Committee agreed to discuss the findings of its inquiry further at its next meeting.

5.1 The Committee agreed to consider the key issues and emerging themes of the inquiry into the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen and send comments to the Clerking team.

5.1 The Committee discussed the evidence received on the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.  

Welsh Government (13:35 – 14:00)

David Richards, Director of Governance

Arwel Thomas, Deputy Director, Corporate Governance and Assurance Division

Via Video Conference: Karen Sinclair, Former Assembly Member (14:00 – 14:40)

Ieuan Wyn Jones AM, Former Minister for Economy and Transport (14:40 – 15:20)

Andrew Davies, Former Minister for Enterprise, Innovation & Networks (15:20 – 16:00)

Welsh Government

2.1 The temporary Chair welcomed David Richards, Director of Governance; and Arwel Thomas, Deputy Director, Corporate Governance and Assurance Division.

2.2 The Committee scrutinised the witnesses.

Action points:

The Welsh Government was asked to provide:

·         Further information on the Welsh Government’s register of declarations of interest, including which declarations would be considered as potential risks;

Karen Sinclair (via Video Conference)

2.3 The Chair welcomed Karen Sinclair, former Assembly Member.

2.4 The Committee questioned the witness.

Ieuan Wyn Jones AM

2.5 The Chair welcomed Ieuan Wyn Jones AM, former Minister for Economy and Transport

2.6 The Committee questioned the witness.

Andrew Davies

2.7 The Chair welcomed Andrew Davies, former Minister for Enterprise, Innovation and Networks.

2.8 The Committee questioned the witness.

6.1 The Committee discussed the evidence received on the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

James Price, Director General, Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science

Jeff Collins, Director Delivery

3.1 The Chair welcomed James Price, Director General, Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science; and Jeff Collins, Director of Delivery.

3.2 The Committee questioned the witnesses.

Action points:

The Welsh Government agreed to provide:

·       Further information clarifying whether Welsh Government officials had responded to correspondence sent by the solicitors of Powys Fadog.

·       Further information on how Welsh Government officials came to the decision to deem the River Lodge Hotel site surplus to requirement.

PAC(4) 20-12 – Paper 1

Pol Wong, Chairman, Powys Fadog

2.1 The Chair welcomed Pol Wong, Chief Executive and Chairman, Powys Fadog.

2.2 The Committee questioned the witness.

Action point:

Powys Fadog agreed to provide:

·         Further information on when martial arts classes ceased on the premises of the former River Lodge Hotel;

Gareth Hall, Former Director for Economy and Transport

4.1 The Chair welcomed Gareth Hall to the meeting.

4.2 The Committee questioned the witness.

Action points:

Gareth Hall agreed to provide:

·         Further information on briefings provided to the relevant Minister with regard to the proposals by Clwyd Alyn Housing Association to use the site of the River Lodge Hotel.

·         Clarity on whether there had been other examples of the Welsh Development Agency / Welsh Government failing to conduct an independent red book valuation for land acquisitions.

·         Clarity on when the compliance review was comissioned.

·         An email received from Amanda Brewer’s line manager, outlining the nature of her role on the board of Powys Fadog and assurances that the conflict of interest was being managed effectively.

PAC(4) 20-12 – Paper 2

Amanda Brewer, Former Welsh Government Official

3.1 The Chair welcomed Amanda Brewer to the meeting.

3.2 The Committee questioned the witness.

7.1 The Committee discussed the evidence received on the Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

3.1 The Committee discussed their intended handling of the subsequent evidence session (item 5) on the Wales Audit office report ‘The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen’.

Dame Gillian Morgan, Permanent Secretary, Welsh Government

James Price, Director General, Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science

Arwel Thomas, Deputy Director, Corporate Governance and Assurance Division

5.1 The Chair welcomed Dame Gillian Morgan, Permanent Secretary, Welsh Government; James Price, Director General, Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science; Arwel Thomas, Deputy Director, Corporate Governance and Assurance Division; and David Richards, Director of Governance.

5.2 The Committee questioned the witnesses.

Action points:

In response to questions, the Welsh Government agreed to provide:

·         Details on whether senior Welsh Government managers above regional level would have been present for briefings of the former Minister for Enterprise, Innovation and Networks regarding proposals to purchase the River Lodge Hotel.

·         A note on whether a deadline has been set to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel site.

·         A note on the process for evaluating bids for use of the site, including details on any conditions on the construction of a footbridge on the site.

·         Further details on the Welsh Government’s Property Leadership Team.

·         Details on how Welsh Government officials in North Wales handled concerns raised by a local Assembly Member in a letter to the Minister regarding the acquisition of the River Lodge Hotel.

6.1 The Committee agreed which witnesses it wished to invite to provide evidence on the inquiry into The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.

7.1 The Committee agreed to undertake a short inquiry into the findings of the Wales Audit Office report The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen and requested that the Clerk compile a list of potential witnesses to provide evidence.

6.1 The Committee received a private briefing from Gillian Body, Assistant Auditor General – Performance Audit and Ian Hughes, Compliance Manager, on the forthcoming report The Welsh Government’s acquisition and action to dispose of the former River Lodge Hotel, Llangollen.