Meetings

NDM7356 Plaid Cymru debate - An Independent Wales

This page gives details of any meetings held which will, or did, discuss the matter, and includes links to the relevant Papers, Agendas and Minutes.

Note: Meeting Agenda can change at short notice. Particularly where future meeting dates are indicated more than a week in advance. Please check before planning to attend a Committee Meeting that the item you are interested in has not been moved.

Meeting: 15/07/2020 - Plenary - Fifth Senedd (Item 16)

Plaid Cymru debate - An Independent Wales

NDM7356 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the people of Wales have welcomed the ability for Wales to act independently during the coronavirus crisis.

2. Recognises the success of independent countries of a similar size to Wales in dealing with the virus.

3. Believes that independence would give Wales greater agility and resilience in responding to future challenges.

4. Notes the increased support for an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

5. Affirms the right of the people of Wales to decide whether Wales should become an independent country.

6. Calls on the Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on independence.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 - Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports Welsh devolution.

2. Recognises the benefits to Wales of being part of the United Kingdom. 

3. Welcomes the significant support made available by Her Majesty’s Government to assist in the response to the coronavirus pandemic in Wales, including:

a) £2.8 billion allocated to support interventions in devolved matters;

b) support for more than 316,500 jobs via a Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme;

c) support for more than 102,000 people via the Self-Employed Income Support Scheme;

d) emergency finance for the steel industry;

e) a Job Retention Bonus to encourage employers to protect the jobs of furloughed workers;

f) a Kickstart Scheme for young job seekers;

g) a reduction in VAT for tourism and hospitality businesses;

h) an Eat Out to Help Out scheme to help cafes, restaurants and pubs; and 

i) funding to decarbonise UK Government public sector buildings in Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to continue to cooperate with Her Majesty’s Government to protect lives and livelihoods in Wales during the coronavirus pandemic.

[If Amendment 1 is agreed amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

Believes that:

a) by any reasonable measure, devolution has failed; and

b) support for scrapping the Senedd exceeds support for Wales' political independence from the UK.

[If Amendment 2 is agreed amendments  3 and 4 will be de-selected]

Amendment 3 - Gareth Bennett (South Wales Central)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the different lockdown policies introduced by different governments across the United Kingdom have led to confusion.

2. Recognises that the only real economic resilience Wales enjoys is as part of the United Kingdom.

3. Notes the Scottish independence referendum in 2014, which resulted in Scotland voting to remain as part of the United Kingdom.

4. Affirms the right of the people of Wales to decide whether Wales continues to have a devolved government.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on whether we keep or abolish the devolved government and parliament of Wales.

[If Amendment 3 is agreed amendment 4 will be de-selected]

Amendment 4 - Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Welcomes the Welsh Government’s strong and effective leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic;

2. Considers that co-ordinated decision-making and messaging by the four administrations within the United Kingdom will most effectively address the challenges the pandemic presents for our citizens and businesses; and

3. Believes that Wales’s interests are best served by its continuing membership of a reformed United Kingdom, allowing co-ordinated governmental action to be pursued.

Amendment 5 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Add as a new point at end of motion:

Believes that the Senedd should be scrapped.

Amendment 6 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Add as a new point at end of motion:

Calls on Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on its disestablishment.

Amendment 7 - Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that Wales should have its own constitution and bill of rights.

Amendment 8 - Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that Welsh sovereignty should be exercised at a community and national level, including use of binding referendums through a public right of initiative.

 

 

Minutes:

The item started at 18.56

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7356 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the people of Wales have welcomed the ability for Wales to act independently during the coronavirus crisis.

2. Recognises the success of independent countries of a similar size to Wales in dealing with the virus.

3. Believes that independence would give Wales greater agility and resilience in responding to future challenges.

4. Notes the increased support for an independent Scotland and a united Ireland.

5. Affirms the right of the people of Wales to decide whether Wales should become an independent country.

6. Calls on the Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on independence.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

9

1

43

53

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 - Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports Welsh devolution.

2. Recognises the benefits to Wales of being part of the United Kingdom. 

3. Welcomes the significant support made available by Her Majesty’s Government to assist in the response to the coronavirus pandemic in Wales, including:

a) £2.8 billion allocated to support interventions in devolved matters;

b) support for more than 316,500 jobs via a Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme;

c) support for more than 102,000 people via the Self-Employed Income Support Scheme;

d) emergency finance for the steel industry;

e) a Job Retention Bonus to encourage employers to protect the jobs of furloughed workers;

f) a Kickstart Scheme for young job seekers;

g) a reduction in VAT for tourism and hospitality businesses;

h) an Eat Out to Help Out scheme to help cafes, restaurants and pubs; and 

i) funding to decarbonise UK Government public sector buildings in Wales.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to continue to cooperate with Her Majesty’s Government to protect lives and livelihoods in Wales during the coronavirus pandemic.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

13

0

40

53

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

Amendment 2 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

Believes that:

a) by any reasonable measure, devolution has failed; and

b) support for scrapping the Senedd exceeds support for Wales' political independence from the UK.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

2

2

49

53

Amendment 2 was not agreed.

Amendment 3 - Gareth Bennett (South Wales Central)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the different lockdown policies introduced by different governments across the United Kingdom have led to confusion.

2. Recognises that the only real economic resilience Wales enjoys is as part of the United Kingdom.

3. Notes the Scottish independence referendum in 2014, which resulted in Scotland voting to remain as part of the United Kingdom.

4. Affirms the right of the people of Wales to decide whether Wales continues to have a devolved government.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on whether we keep or abolish the devolved government and parliament of Wales.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

2

2

49

53

Amendment 3 was not agreed.

Amendment 4 - Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Welcomes the Welsh Government’s strong and effective leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic;

2. Considers that co-ordinated decision-making and messaging by the four administrations within the United Kingdom will most effectively address the challenges the pandemic presents for our citizens and businesses; and

3. Believes that Wales’s interests are best served by its continuing membership of a reformed United Kingdom, allowing co-ordinated governmental action to be pursued.

A vote was taken on amendment 4:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

0

24

53

Amendment 4 was agreed.

Amendment 5 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Add as a new point at end of motion:

Believes that the Senedd should be scrapped.

A vote was taken on amendment 5:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

2

2

49

53

Amendment 5 was not agreed.

Amendment 6 - Neil Hamilton (Mid and West Wales)

Add as a new point at end of motion:

Calls on Welsh Government to seek the constitutional right to allow the Senedd to legislate during the next term to hold a binding referendum on its disestablishment.

A vote was taken on amendment 6:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

2

2

49

53

Amendment 6 was not agreed.

Amendment 7 - Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that Wales should have its own constitution and bill of rights.

A vote was taken on amendment 7:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

9

2

42

53

Amendment 7 was not agreed.

Amendment 8 - Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Believes that Welsh sovereignty should be exercised at a community and national level, including use of binding referendums through a public right of initiative.

A vote was taken on amendment 8:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

1

2

50

53

Amendment 8 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM7356 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Welcomes the Welsh Government’s strong and effective leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic;

2. Considers that co-ordinated decision-making and messaging by the four administrations within the United Kingdom will most effectively address the challenges the pandemic presents for our citizens and businesses; and

3. Believes that Wales’s interests are best served by its continuing membership of a reformed United Kingdom, allowing co-ordinated governmental action to be pursued.

 

For

Abstain

Against

Total

29

0

24

53

The motion as amended was agreed.