Meetings

Business Committee confirmed their decision to replicate in Standing Orders the provisions on using the d’Hondt formula to decide committee membership previously contained in the Act. The Committee did not agree to any other changes.

NDM7361 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Public Accounts Committee.

NDM7362 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee.

NDM7363 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee in place of Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7364 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee in place of Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7365 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee in place of Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7366 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Laura Anne Jones (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee in place of David Melding (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7367 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Laura Anne Jones (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Children, Young People and Education Committee in place of Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives).

The item started at 14.35

NDM7361 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Public Accounts Committee.

NDM7362 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee.

NDM7363 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee in place of Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7364 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee in place of Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7365 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee in place of Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7366 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Laura Anne Jones (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee in place of David Melding (Welsh Conservatives).

NDM7367 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 17.14, elects Laura Anne Jones (Welsh Conservatives) as a member of the Children, Young People and Education Committee in place of Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives).

The motions were agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Business Managers discussed the paper and agreed that the provisions in the Government of Wales Act 2006 which set out the d’Hondt formula for allocating committee places in the event of the Assembly being unable to agree a motion on membership by two-thirds majority should be integrated into Standing Orders. This would allow the continued use of the d’Hondt formula as a fallback mechanism.

Business Managers discussed a range of issues relating to political balance on committees and committee chairs, especially procedures around how any changes to the balance between groups during the course of an Assembly are reflected in the make up of committees and the balance of chairs and asked the Secretariat to bring forward a paper looking at these issues in greater detail.

NDM7186 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees to alter the remit of the Equalities, Local Government and Communities Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

a) to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters encompassing (but not restricted to): local government; housing, community regeneration, cohesion and safety; tackling poverty; equality of opportunity and human rights;

b) to exercise the non-budgetary functions set out in Standing Order 18A.2  in relation to accountability and governance of the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales.

The item started at 15.14

NDM7186 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees to alter the remit of the Equalities, Local Government and Communities Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

a) to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters encompassing (but not restricted to): local government; housing, community regeneration, cohesion and safety; tackling poverty; equality of opportunity and human rights;

b) to exercise the non-budgetary functions set out in Standing Order 18A.2  in relation to accountability and governance of the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM7187 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees to alter the remit of the Finance Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

a) to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Orders 18.10, 18.11, 18A.2(iv) and (v), 19 and 20 of the National Assembly for Wales;

b) under Standing Orders 19 and 20, the committee’s responsibilities include considering any report or document laid before the Assembly concerning the use of resources, or expenditure from the Welsh Consolidated Fund, including undertaking budget scrutiny of the bodies directly funded from the Welsh Consolidated Fund;

c) under Standing Orders 18.10 and 18.11, the committee’s responsibilities include oversight of the governance of the Wales Audit Office, as set out in the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013;

d) under Standing Order 18A.2(iv) and (v), to exercise budgetary functions in relation to the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales;

e) the committee also considers any proposals for, and the progress of the devolution of fiscal powers to Wales as part of its responsibilities;

f) the committee may also scrutinise legislation introduced to the Assembly.

Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013

The item started at 15.14

NDM7187 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees to alter the remit of the Finance Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

a) to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Orders 18.10, 18.11, 18A.2(iv) and (v), 19 and 20 of the National Assembly for Wales;

b) under Standing Orders 19 and 20, the committee’s responsibilities include considering any report or document laid before the Assembly concerning the use of resources, or expenditure from the Welsh Consolidated Fund, including undertaking budget scrutiny of the bodies directly funded from the Welsh Consolidated Fund;

c) under Standing Orders 18.10 and 18.11, the committee’s responsibilities include oversight of the governance of the Wales Audit Office, as set out in the Public Audit (Wales) Act 2013;

d) under Standing Order 18A.2(iv) and (v), to exercise budgetary functions in relation to the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales;

e) the committee also considers any proposals for, and the progress of the devolution of fiscal powers to Wales as part of its responsibilities;

f) the committee may also scrutinise legislation introduced to the Assembly.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Caroline Jones explained that the Brexit Party group had not taken up the 5^th Committee seat offered to them as none of the Brexit Party group Members wanted to sit on more than one Committee. Business Managers noted that some Members of other groups sit on at least two committees.

Business Managers agreed to table the relevant motions to remove Labour, Conservative and Plaid Cymru Members from committees, to reduce the size of the seven eight-Member policy and legislation committees to six Members each. They also agreed to table motions to elect Michelle Brown to the Petitions Committee, Neil Hamilton to Climate Change Environment and Rural Affairs Committee and Gareth Bennett to Public Accounts Committee.

Business Managers considered a proposal to reduce the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee’s membership down to 4 Members, and agreed to return to the matter at next week’s meeting following consultation with groups.

Business Managers discussed a paper on the implications of Mark Reckless leaving the UKIP group on Committees.  The Committee agreed that all decisions relating to the change should be taken at the same time, in due course.

Business Managers will inform the Llywydd when they are in a position to discuss the matter again at Committee.       

Business Managers agreed to offer Dafydd Elis-Thomas a place on the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee.

The Committee noted that discussions were ongoing as to whether to make any further changes to the membership and/or chairing of other committees in light of the new balance of party groups. The Llywydd asked Business Managers to inform her if and when they were ready to bring any proposals for change to the Committee.

Business Managers discussed a paper on the effect of Dafydd Elis-Thomas’ leaving the Plaid Cymru group to sit as an Independent Member, and agreed that Plaid Cymru should nominate a Member to fill the vacancies on CLA and SOC. Business Managers agreed to return to the matter of offering Dafydd Elis-Thomas a committee place, and the impact on committee membership more generally, at next week’s meeting.

The Committee also agreed to keep to the current allocation of opposition time on a 2:2:1 ratio for Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and UKIP group and that Leaders’ and Spokespeople’s rotation stay the same.

Business Managers agreed to offer Nathan Gill a place on the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. UKIP had offered to give up their place on the committee so that its size would remain the same.

Business Managers agreed to review the Standing Orders on the definition of a group, especially in respect of a Member leaving or being suspended from a group, and the relationship with Business Committee.

NDM6083 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3:

Agrees to alter the remit of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

(a) to examine the implications for Wales of the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the European Union and to ensure Welsh interests are safeguarded during the withdrawal process, in any new relationship with the European Union and in the intra-UK post-withdrawal arrangements for relevant policy, finance and legislation;

(b) to coordinate activity across Assembly committees in relation to point (a) above.

(c) to carry out the functions of the responsible committee under Standing Orders 21.8 to 21.11, with a consequential change to the remit of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee;

(d) to consider any other matter, including legislation, referred to it by the Business Committee.

Supporting Documents

Business Committee report

The item started at 15.04

NDM6083 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3:

Agrees to alter the remit of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee, so that its remit is as follows:

(a) to examine the implications for Wales of the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the European Union and to ensure Welsh interests are safeguarded during the withdrawal process, in any new relationship with the European Union and in the intra-UK post-withdrawal arrangements for relevant policy, finance and legislation;

(b) to coordinate activity across Assembly committees in relation to point (a) above.

(c) to carry out the functions of the responsible committee under Standing Orders 21.8 to 21.11, with a consequential change to the remit of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee;

(d) to consider any other matter, including legislation, referred to it by the Business Committee.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The Committee discussed the paper on the effect of a Member leaving a political group on Committee representation and opposition time in Plenary and agreed that UKIP should nominate a Member to fill the vacancy on EAALC.  David Rowlands informed the committee that their nomination would be Michelle Brown, and the Committee agreed to table a motion under Standing Order 17.3 for consideration on Wednesday.

On the matter of offering Nathan Gill a committee place, Business Managers requested that the Secretariat circulate an information note before the next meeting on precedents in this regard, and on the relationship between Members who do not belong to a political group and the Business Committee.  David Rowlands indicated that UKIP would be willing to give up their seat on the CLA Committee for Nathan Gill.

Business Managers agreed to return to the matter at next week’s meeting.

The Committee agreed to alter the allocation of opposition time from a 5:5:3 to 2:2:1 ratio for Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and the UKIP group, and to note the knock-on effect that would have on the Leaders’ and Spokespeople rotation.

The Presiding Officer informed Business Managers of her decision regarding a revised seating plan for the Chamber.

NDM6076 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3:

Agrees that the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee, established on 28 June 2016, is retitled the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee.

The item started at 15.47

NDM6076 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3:

Agrees that the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee, established on 28 June 2016, is retitled the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The paper was noted.

Remit of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee

Business Managers discussed a paper on changes to the remit of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee and agreed to table a motion on Wednesday 14 September to that effect, subject to minor amendments. The Presiding Officer indicated that she would write to the chairs of the Reserve Policy and Legislation and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committees setting out their new remits.

NDM6061 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hefin David (Welsh Labour), John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Julie Morgan (Welsh Labour), Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru), Mohammad Asghar (Welsh Conservatives), Darren Millar (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee.

NDM6062 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Vikki Howells (Welsh Labour), Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru) and David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) as members of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee.

NDM6063 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hannah Blythyn (Welsh Labour), Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Lee Waters (Welsh Labour), Dai Lloyd (Plaid Cymru), Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and Neil Hamilton (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee.

NDM6064 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hannah Blythyn (Welsh Labour), Hefin David (Welsh Labour), Vikki Howells (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Adam Price (Plaid Cymru), Mark Isherwood (Welsh Conservatives) and David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee.

NDM6065 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Rhianon Passmore (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Joyce Watson (Welsh Labour), Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), Bethan Jenkins (Plaid Cymru), Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) and Gareth Bennett (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee.

NDM6066 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Julie Morgan (Welsh Labour), Lynne Neagle (Welsh Labour), Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru), Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives) and Caroline Jones (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.

NDM6067 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), Steffan Lewis (Plaid Cymru), Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives), Mark Isherwood (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee.

NDM6068 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee.

NDM6069 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), David Rees (Welsh Labour), Steffan Lewis (Plaid Cymru), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Finance Committee.

NDM6070 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Neil McEvoy (Plaid Cymru), Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) and Gareth Bennett (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Petitions Committee.

NDM6071 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Rhianon Passmore (Welsh Labour), Lee Waters (Welsh Labour), Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru), Mohammad Asghar (Welsh Conservatives) and Neil Hamilton (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Public Accounts Committee.

NDM6072 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

1. Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Standards of Conduct Committee, and

2. John Griffiths (Welsh Labour) for Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru) for Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives) for Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) for David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as alternate members of the Standards of Conduct Committee.

NDM6073 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

1. Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour), Lynne Neagle (Welsh Labour), David Rees (Welsh Labour), Bethan Jenkins (Plaid Cymru), Dai Lloyd (Plaid Cymru), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Russell George (Welsh Conservatives), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister; and

2. Ann Jones (Welsh Labour) as Chair of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

The item started at 14.49

Voting on the seven Policy and Legislation Committees was grouped and deferred until Voting Time.

NDM6061 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hefin David (Welsh Labour), John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Julie Morgan (Welsh Labour), Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru), Mohammad Asghar (Welsh Conservatives), Darren Millar (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee.

NDM6062 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Vikki Howells (Welsh Labour), Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru) and David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) as members of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee.

NDM6063 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hannah Blythyn (Welsh Labour), Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Lee Waters (Welsh Labour), Dai Lloyd (Plaid Cymru), Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and Neil Hamilton (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee.

NDM6064 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Hannah Blythyn (Welsh Labour), Hefin David (Welsh Labour), Vikki Howells (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Adam Price (Plaid Cymru), Mark Isherwood (Welsh Conservatives) and David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee.

NDM6065 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Rhianon Passmore (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Joyce Watson (Welsh Labour), Siân Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), Bethan Jenkins (Plaid Cymru), Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) and Gareth Bennett (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee.

NDM6066 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Julie Morgan (Welsh Labour), Lynne Neagle (Welsh Labour), Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru), Angela Burns (Welsh Conservatives) and Caroline Jones (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee.

NDM6067 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dawn Bowden (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), Steffan Lewis (Plaid Cymru), Suzy Davies (Welsh Conservatives), Mark Isherwood (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee.

The result was as follows:

The motions were agreed.

Voting on the following Six Specialist Committees was grouped and was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM6068 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), David Melding (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee.

NDM6069 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), David Rees (Welsh Labour), Steffan Lewis (Plaid Cymru), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Finance Committee.

NDM6070 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Neil McEvoy (Plaid Cymru), Janet Finch-Saunders (Welsh Conservatives) and Gareth Bennett (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Petitions Committee.

NDM6071 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Rhianon Passmore (Welsh Labour), Lee Waters (Welsh Labour), Rhun ap Iorwerth (Plaid Cymru), Mohammad Asghar (Welsh Conservatives) and Neil Hamilton (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Public Accounts Committee.

NDM6072 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

1. Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Standards of Conduct Committee, and

2. John Griffiths (Welsh Labour) for Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru) for Dafydd Elis-Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Andrew RT Davies (Welsh Conservatives) for Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives) and Michelle Brown (UKIP Cymru) for David J Rowlands (UKIP Cymru) as alternate members of the Standards of Conduct Committee.

NDM6073 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

1. Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour), Lynne Neagle (Welsh Labour), David Rees (Welsh Labour), Bethan Jenkins (Plaid Cymru), Dai Lloyd (Plaid Cymru), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Russell George (Welsh Conservatives), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (UKIP Cymru) as members of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister; and

2. Ann Jones (Welsh Labour) as Chair of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

Committee Timetabling

Business Managers considered a paper setting out committee timetabling options for the new term and agreed on option B.

Remit of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee

Business Managers agreed to change the name of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee to the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee and agreed to consider a revised remit at the next meeting.

A motion would be tabled to change the title of the committee and would be taken on Wednesday 13 July.

NDM6044 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees that the Interim Committee on Constitutional and Legislative Affairs, established on 15 June 2016, is retitled the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. Its remit is to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 21 and to consider any other constitutional, legislative or governmental matter within or relating to the competence of the Assembly or the Welsh Ministers, including the quality of legislation.

The item started at 16.12

NDM6044 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.3, agrees that the Interim Committee on Constitutional and Legislative Affairs, established on 15 June 2016, is retitled the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. Its remit is to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 21 and to consider any other constitutional, legislative or governmental matter within or relating to the competence of the Assembly or the Welsh Ministers, including the quality of legislation.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

NDM6034 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Children, Young People and Education Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising its expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): the education, health and well-being of the children and young people of Wales, including their social care.

NDM6035 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee
to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): climate change; energy; natural resources management; planning; animal welfare and agriculture.

NDM6036 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee
to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): culture; the arts; historic environment; Welsh language; communications; broadcasting and the media.

NDM6037 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes an Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee
to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): economic development; transport; infrastructure; employment; skills; and research and development, including technology and science.

NDM6038 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes an Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee
to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): local government; housing, community regeneration, cohesion and safety; tackling poverty; equality of opportunity and human rights.

NDM6039 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): the physical, mental and public health and well-being of the people of Wales, including the social care system.

NDM6040 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee to consider any matter referred to it by the Business Committee.

NDM6041 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Petitions Committee to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 23.

NDM6042 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to scrutinise the First Minister on any matter relevant to the exercise of the functions of the Welsh Government.

NDM6043 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Standards of Conduct Committee to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 22.

The item started at 16.11

NDM6034 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Children, Young People and Education Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising its expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): the education, health and well-being of the children and young people of Wales, including their social care.

NDM6035 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): climate change; energy; natural resources management; planning; animal welfare and agriculture.

NDM6036 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): culture; the arts; historic environment; Welsh language; communications; broadcasting and the media.

NDM6037 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes an Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): economic development; transport; infrastructure; employment; skills; and research and development, including technology and science.

NDM6038 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes an Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): local government; housing, community regeneration, cohesion and safety; tackling poverty; equality of opportunity and human rights.

NDM6039 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to examine legislation and hold the Welsh Government to account by scrutinising expenditure, administration and policy matters, encompassing (but not restricted to): the physical, mental and public health and well-being of the people of Wales, including the social care system.

NDM6040 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee to consider any matter referred to it by the Business Committee.

NDM6041 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Petitions Committee to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 23.

NDM6042 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to scrutinise the First Minister on any matter relevant to the exercise of the functions of the Welsh Government.

NDM6043 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1 establishes a Standards of Conduct Committee to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 22.

The motions were agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The item started at 17.29

The Presiding Officer invited nominations for committee chairs in accordance with Standing Order 17.2F. Nominations were called in the following order:

Children, Young People and Education Committee - Labour

Mike Hedges nominated Julie Morgan.

Hefin David seconded the nomination.

Lesley Griffiths nominated Lynne Neagle.

Joyce Watson seconded the nomination.

As there were two nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee - UKIP

David Rowlands nominated Mark Reckless.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Mark Reckless was elected as Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee.

Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee - Labour

Dawn Bowden nominated Huw Irranca-Davies.

David Rees seconded the nomination.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Huw Irranca-Davies was elected as Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee.

Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee - Plaid Cymru

Dai Lloyd nominated Bethan Jenkins.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Bethan Jenkins was elected as Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee.

Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee - Welsh Conservatives

David Melding nominated Russell George.

Mark Isherwood nominated Janet Finch-Saunders.

As there were two nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee - Labour

Jayne Bryant nominated John Griffiths.

Dawn Bowden seconded the nomination.

Jeremy Miles nominated Lee Waters.

Hefin David seconded the nomination.

Eluned Morgan nominated Jenny Rathbone.

Rhianon Passmore seconded the nomination.

As there were three nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

Finance Committee - Plaid Cymru

Llyr Gruffydd nominated Simon Thomas.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Simon Thomas was elected as Chair of the Finance Committee.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee - Plaid Cymru

Bethan Jenkins nominated Dai Lloyd.

Llyr Gruffydd nominated Rhun ap Iorwerth.

As there were two nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

Petitions Committee - Labour

Rhianon Passmore nominated Mike Hedges.

Julie Morgan seconded the nomination.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Mike Hedges was elected as Chair of the Petitions Committee.

Public Accounts Committee - Welsh Conservatives

David Melding nominated Darren Millar.

Janet Finch-Saunders nominated Mark Isherwood.

Mohammad Asghar nominated Nick Ramsay.

As there were three nominations, the Presiding Officer referred the nominations to a secret ballot in accordance with Standing Order 17.2I.

Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee – Labour

Eluned Morgan nominated David Rees.

Huw Irranca-Davies seconded the nomination.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that David Rees was elected as Chair of the Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee.

Standards of Conduct Committee – Labour

Joyce Watson nominated Jayne Bryant.

Mike Hedges seconded the nomination.

As there was only one nomination and no objections to the nomination, the Presiding Officer declared that Jayne Bryant was elected as Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee.

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2A, agrees that the political groups from which the chairs of committees are elected will be as follows:

(i)         Children, Young People and Education Committee - Labour;

(ii)        Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee - UKIP;

(iii)      Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee - Labour;

(iv)       Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee - Plaid Cymru;

(v)        Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee - Welsh Conservatives;

(vi)       Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee - Labour;

(vii)     Finance Committee - Plaid Cymru;

(viii)   Health, Social Care and Sport Committee - Plaid Cymru;

(ix)      Petitions Committee - Labour;

(x)        Public Accounts Committee - Welsh Conservatives;

(xi)      Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee - Labour;

(xii)    Standards of Conduct Committee – Labour.

The item started at 17.28

NDM6056 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)
 
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.2A, agrees that the political groups from which the chairs of committees are elected will be as follows:

1. Children, Young People and Education Committee - Labour;
2. Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee - UKIP;
3. Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee - Labour;
4. Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee - Plaid Cymru;
5. Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee - Welsh Conservatives;
6. Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee - Labour;
7. Finance Committee - Plaid Cymru;
8. Health, Social Care and Sport Committee - Plaid Cymru;
9. Petitions Committee - Labour;
10. Public Accounts Committee - Welsh Conservatives;
11. Reserve Policy and Legislation Committee - Labour;
12. Standards of Conduct Committee – Labour.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Business Managers considered a paper setting out proposals for a committee timetable and agreed a temporary timetable for the remainder of this term.

Business Managers agreed to discuss timetabling options for the new term with their Party Groups and return to the matter at next week’s meeting.

The Committee agreed that the reserve committee should prioritise scrutinising the outcome of the EU Referendum. Business Managers discussed a query raised by David Rowlands whether other matters could still be referred to the reserve committee should the workload of policy and legislation committees increase. The committee agreed that this should still be the case. Simon Thomas suggested that other committees may also choose to scrutinise EU matters which fall within their remits. The Presiding Officer clarified that flexibility had been built into the Assembly Timetable to allow additional slots for the reserve committee to meet should they choose to do so.

NDM6049 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

(i) Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Adam Price (Plaid Cymru), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (United Kingdom Independence Party) as members of the Finance Committee; and

(ii) Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru) as interim Chair of the Finance Committee.

The item started at 15.08

NDM6049 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

(i) Mike Hedges (Welsh Labour), Eluned Morgan (Welsh Labour), Jeremy Miles (Welsh Labour), Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru), Adam Price (Plaid Cymru), Nick Ramsay (Welsh Conservatives) and Mark Reckless (United Kingdom Independence Party) as members of the Finance Committee; and

(ii) Simon Thomas (Plaid Cymru) as interim Chair of the Finance Committee.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Following previous discussions Business Managers discussed the arrangements in relation to committees.

Committee Membership

Paul Davies and Simon Thomas agreed to the membership arrangements previously proposed by Jane Hutt, which provides for policy and legislation committees to be comprised of 4 Labour Members and 4 opposition Members, providing 4 of these committees are chaired by opposition Members.

Mark Reckless registered his objection to having committee memberships allocated in this way, as it did not reflect the political balance in the Assembly.  However, UKIP would be prepared to co-operate with the proposed approach.

It was confirmed that the interim membership of the Finance Committee was known for all parties except for Plaid Cymru.

In relation to the allocation of committee places to Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservatives, those parties asked for further information from the secretariat on possible options.

Committee Chairs

Business Managers confirmed that agreement had been reached on which political group would Chair which Committee.

Remits

The Committee considered and agreed the Business Committee report on remits of the policy and legislation committees.

Procedures for electing committee chairs

Following previous agreement on introducing a procedure for electing committee chairs Business Managers considered the arrangements for the election of chairs and agree the nominations should be taken in Plenary on Tuesday 28 Junes with the secret ballots taking place on Wednesday 29 June.  It was agreed the result of the ballots would be announced at the end of Plenary on Wednesday 29 June. 

Business Manages asked to see the guidance on the election of committee chairs, prior to it being issued to all Members and it was agreed it should be issued to all Members by the end of Plenary on Wednesday 22 June.

Committee Size and Remits

Business Managers considered a paper setting out proposed committee structures and agreed the titles and remits of committees.

The Committee agreed to table motions to establish those committees for consideration by the Assembly on 28 June 2016.

Business Managers agreed to return to the matter of committee size as well as the allocation of committee chairs to political groups at the next meeting.

NDM6023 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1:

Establishes an Interim Committee on Constitutional and Legislative Affairs to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 21 and to consider any other constitutional, legislative or governmental matter within or relating to the competence of the Assembly or the Welsh Ministers, including the quality of legislation.

The item started at 15.04

NDM6023 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

The National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1:

Establishes an Interim Committee on Constitutional and Legislative Affairs to carry out the functions of the responsible committee set out in Standing Order 21 and to consider any other constitutional, legislative or governmental matter within or relating to the competence of the Assembly or the Welsh Ministers, including the quality of legislation.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

At the meeting of 8 June, Business Managers considered a paper setting out the role of Business Committee in establishing a committee system. At that meeting, The Committee requested the Secretariat bring forward further options for committee sizes and remits based on Business Managers’ suggestions.

Business Managers also requested the Secretariat to bring forward a paper outlining a possible procedure for electing committee chairs, and to provide various options within that procedure, for Business Managers to consider.

Number of committees

There was a general consensus that six specialist and six policy and legislation committees should be established, with one reserve committee to undertake additional pressures from other committees. Jane Hutt proposed that the reserve committee should be able to assume both policy and legislative scrutiny and Simon Thomas suggested that the committee could also scrutinise matters that might arise that are of public importance, but are not necessarily devolved. Business Managers also noted that the reserve committee may decide to carry out initial work based on the outcome of the EU referendum.

Mark Reckless suggested that the committee may want to return to the matter of the number of committees should there be disagreement around the allocation of committee chairs to political groups.

The Presiding Officer suggested the Committee consider the practicalities of timetabling slots for the reserve committee to meet. The Committee agreed that some flexibility should be built in to the timetable to allow the committee to meet depending on its workload and that its membership should be taken into consideration when agreeing the timetable.

Remits

The Committee considered and agreed the remits of the policy and legislation committees, as set out in the paper.

Business Managers agreed that the membership of the Scrutiny of the First Minister Committee should comprise of the committee chairs of the 6 policy and legislation committees, PAC, Finance and CLA and would consider its operation at a later date when a decision had been made whether to introduce a procedure to elect committee chairs. It was suggested that the Scrutiny of the First Minister Committee sit outside the allocation of chairs to political groups and be chaired by the Deputy Presiding Officer.

Business Managers commented that the fourth Assembly Business Committee’s role to review Assembly procedures had worked well and as such should be retained in the fifth Assembly.

The Committee also agreed to retain the Standards of Conduct Committee with its current remit. They also agreed to review the scrutiny of public appointments in due course.

Size of Committees 

Jane Hutt conveyed the Labour group’s view that policy and legislation committees should comprise of eight members, with the exception of Finance and Public Accounts Committees which should have seven members and be chaired by opposition parties. 

Paul Davies and Simon Thomas commented that as political balance could not be achieved without unreasonably large committee sizes, they would be content to establish committees of 8 members but would expect the Labour group to compromise on its membership, and allocation of chairs, to better reflect the Assembly’s political make-up.

Mark Reckless expressed concerns that committee membership comprising of 8 members contradicts the Committee’s previous discussions about trying to achieve political balance. He also stated that should the two largest opposition parties chair the Finance and Public Accounts Committees, and if some committees comprise of 8 members with a 3:2:1 split of opposition chairs, the UKIP group would be disadvantaged and the overall arrangements might not reflect political balance.   

All Business Managers agreed that attempting to reach a compromise of committee membership would be preferable to the application of D’hondt. The Presiding Officer encouraged Business Managers to meet outside of committee to reach an agreement on the size of committees and to return to the matter at the following meeting with the expectation of making a decision.

In light of the letter by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government setting out his intention to lay the Supplementary Budget on 21 June, Business Managers agreed to table a motion to establish permanent Finance and Public Accounts Committees and agreed to confirm the membership of the Finance committee by the following meeting.

Procedures for electing committee chairs

Business Managers considered and agreed in principle to introduce a procedure for electing committee chairs.

Jane Hutt prompted a discussion around the minimum threshold required for nominations. Business Managers agreed that a nomination by one Member would be a reasonable threshold for an institution of the Assembly’s size. The Committee agreed in principle that candidates should be nominated by a member of their own group, and that no seconder would be required. Jane Hutt, however, commented that she would need to give further consideration to the minimum threshold required for nominations on account of the size of the Labour group.

Business Managers all agreed that should there be only one nomination, that Member would be declared elected as is the case for the election of the Presiding and Deputy Presiding Officer. If there is more than one nomination, the Committee agreed that a secret ballot should take place whereby Members vote in order of preference for their preferred candidate, avoiding multiple rounds of secret ballots. The successful candidate would be the first to secure more than half the votes.

Business Managers decided that no Member should be a candidate for multiple chairs, where more than one chair is being elected at the same time.

The Committee agreed that a motion to remove a committee chair should be supported by the majority of the committee, have cross-party support and that the Chair should not be able to participate in any vote on their removal.

Paper to note - Letter from the National Union of Journalists

Business Managers noted the letter.

Business Managers agreed to table a motion to appoint members and chair of the interim Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee for the agreement of the Assembly on 15 June and agreed that David Melding (Conservatives) should be proposed as chair of the committee.

The Committee reconvened at 17.18.

At the meeting of 25 May, Business Managers considered a paper setting out the role of Business Committee in establishing a committee system. At that meeting, the Committee requested a further detailed paper outlining options for possible committee structures including suggested models for committee remits and procedures for electing committee chairs and agreed to discuss options with their groups in the meantime.

Joint Policy and Legislation Committees

There was a general consensus in favour of establishing six joint policy and legislation committees and six specialist committees with a reserve committee to be established to absorb any short-term pressures in the overall committee system, particularly legislation.

Jane Hutt emphasised that should a reserve committee be established at the outset, it would require a broad remit if it is to undertake additional pressures from other committees.

Committee Size

Following discussion with party groups, Jane Hutt commented that the Labour group would prefer a structure of 8 Members on combined Policy and Legislation Committees and noted that application of D’hondt would give Labour 4 seats on such committes.

The Presiding Officer advised that should D’hondt be applied on small committees, it would not reflect the balance of the political groups to which Assembly members belong and could be interpreted as running counter to the Government of Wales Act 2006.

Simon Thomas remarked that as perfect proportionality could not be achieved, an element of compromise would be required to attain an overall balance across committees. Mark Reckless and Paul Davies agreed and requested options for committee structures based on a model of seven and eight Members and based on political balance that could be agreed by consensus rather than by the strict application of D’hondt.

Business Managers agreed to return to the matter at a future meeting to decide on committee size following discussions with party groups.

Committee Remits

There was general agreement by Business Managers to establish six joint policy and legislation committees and that it would not be necessary to mirror ministerial portfolios, given that ministerial portfolios are subject to change.

Business Managers considered that having an additional committee, compared with the Fourth Assembly, would ensure more balanced remits and would reduce the likelyhood of over-burdening any one committee.

Business Managers agreed that six specialist committees should be established, as was the case in the Fourth assembly, including, Scrutiny of the First Minister; Constitutional and Legislative Affairs; Finance; Public Account; Petitions and a Standards of Conduct Committee.

Business Managers considered that membership of the Scrutiny of the First Minister Committee could be composed of other committee chairs, with either the Presiding or Deputy Presiding Officer chairing, and asked the Secretariat to look at options for this. Business Managers also asked for different options to be considered for the remit of the Standards Committee, including whether it could be expanded to include privilege, procedures, and public appointments.

The Committee requested the Secretariat bring forward further options for committee remits based on Business Managers’ suggestions.

Procedures for Electing Committee Chairs

Business Managers agreed that the possibility of electing committee chairs should be looked at further, with some groups wholly in favour and none strongly opposed.

Jane Hutt suggested that the procedure for the removal of committee chairs should require more than a simple majority vote in the committee. Simon Thomas suggested that to have effect, a vote of no confidence by a committee should also then be endorsed by the Assembly as a whole.

Paul Davies requested further advice on whether members of the Government should be able to vote in Plenary to elect and remove a committee chair given its function is to scrutinise the Government.

Jane Hutt expressed that she would like to return to this matter as part of forthcoming discussions.

Jane Hutt indicated that she would need to give further consideration to the proposal that candidates for committee chairs should be nominated by one other Member from within the Party group and requested that the Secretariat explore how other parliaments outside the UK elect committee chairs.

Business Managers were in agreement that election of chairs should be done by means of a secret ballot.

Business Managers agreed for the Secretariat to bring forward a paper outlining a possible procedure for electing committee chairs, and to provide various options within that procedure, for Business Managers to consider.

Business Managers considered papers setting out the decisions the Committee would need to take in establishing a committee system and procedures for electing committee chairs.

Simon Thomas questioned whether Kirsty Williams AM would be permitted to have a seat on a committee while also being a member of the government. The Head of Policy and Legislation Committee Service advised that although, by convention, Members of the Government have not sat on an Assembly committee, Standing Orders do not prevent them doing so. The Liberal Democrat Member’s entitlement to a committee seat therefore remained, though it would be a matter for her as to whether she wanted to take it up or not.

There was a general consensus that committee size should be reduced compared to the Fourth Assembly. Business Managers agreed to discuss options with their groups.

The committee also considered the previous Business Committee’s recommendation that the core structure of joint policy and legislation committees should be maintained in the Fifth Assembly. Jane Hutt and Mark Reckless were in favour of maintaining this structure, stating that it allowed Members who had developed an expertise in policy areas to also scrutinise legislation on those subjects. Simon Thomas and Paul Davies however suggested that having at least some separate legislation committees would reduce the workload pressures of some committees, which was an issue during the last Assembly.

Paul Davies raised committee remits and that they should mirror the portfolios of Cabinet Secretaries, which was not the case in the Fourth Assembly. Simon Thomas also suggested a separate committee to scrutinise EU legislation and referenced the Communities, Equality and Local Government Committee’s remit in the Fourth Assembly as being particularly broad resulting in a disproportionate workload.

Business Managers noted a recommendation in the paper on committees that should more time be needed to come to a definitive view on these matters, certain arrangements should be put in place for certain committees to consider urgent matters such as subordinate legislation, finance, the Wales Bill and the outcome of the EU referendum.

The Committee requested a further detailed paper outlining options for possible committee structures including suggested models for committee remits and procedures for electing committee chairs, based on the discussions of the Committee, to be considered at the next meeting after 8 June. In the meantime, the Presiding Officer asked Business Managers to discuss options with their Groups.