Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd. View directions

Expected timing: 167(v3) 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 25/10/2023 - Plenary

Items
Expected timing No. Item

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Climate Change

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

The first 10 questions were asked. Question 1, 2 and 10 were answered by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister and Deputy Minister after question 2.

 

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Education and Welsh Language

The Presiding Officer will call party spokespeople to ask questions without notice to the Minister after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.22

The first 10 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(20 mins)

3.

Topical Questions

To ask the Minister for Climate Change

Jack Sargeant (Alyn and Deeside): Will the Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government will work with partners to support communities following the impact of Storm Babet?

Jane Dodds (Mid and West Wales): What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that Dŵr Cymru complies with its operational permit conditions following concerns over compliance against their discharge permits?

Minutes:

The item started at 15.08

Answered by the Minister for Climate Change

Jack Sargeant (Alyn and Deeside): Will the Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government will work with partners to support communities following the impact of Storm Babet?

Jane Dodds (Mid and West Wales): What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that Dŵr Cymru complies with its operational permit conditions following concerns over compliance against their discharge permits?

 

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 15.52

Alun Davies made a statement on - Unveiling of a statue of Roy Francis in Brynmawr (21 October).

Delyth Jewell made a statement on - Newport Rising Festival (4 November).

Jayne Bryant made a statement on - Dwarfism Awareness Day (25 October).

(60 mins)

5.

Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) - The Holodomor

NDM8381 Alun Davies (Blaenau Gwent)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that the Holodomor was a predetermined crime committed and led by Stalin and the Soviet Government against the people of Ukraine.

2. Regards the Holodomor as an act of genocide.

3. Notes the crucial role of Welsh journalist Gareth Jones in bringing the cruelty of the Holodomor to the attention of the world.

4. Continues to stand with the people of the Ukraine as they face Putin's illegal war.

Co-submitters

Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Minutes:

The item started at 15.57

NDM8381 Alun Davies (Blaenau Gwent)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that the Holodomor was a predetermined crime committed and led by Stalin and the Soviet Government against the people of Ukraine.

2. Regards the Holodomor as an act of genocide.

3. Notes the crucial role of Welsh journalist Gareth Jones in bringing the cruelty of the Holodomor to the attention of the world.

4. Continues to stand with the people of the Ukraine as they face Putin's illegal war.

Co-submitters

Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

(60 mins)

6.

Welsh Conservatives Debate - A&E department performance data

NDM8390 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the importance of meaningful and transparent data in improving care and patient safety.

2. Regrets the findings by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that headline emergency department performance data have not been accurately reported for more than a decade.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) routinely publish pre-exemption figures for Welsh emergency departments to better understand performance and to inform decision making;

b) explain why the performance data in responses provided by Welsh local health boards to the Royal College of Emergency Medicine under the Freedom of Information Act and emergency department performance data published by the Welsh Government appears to be different; and

c) commission an independent review of published data to ensure that they are comparable between the UK nations.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Notes the assurance from health boards that emergency department data have been reported in line with Welsh Government guidance.

Notes that the independent Office for Statistics Regulation has welcomed the steps the Welsh Government has taken to provide assurance on the quality of the statistics.

Notes that, based on compliance by health boards with the guidance we have in Wales, Welsh statistics for major emergency departments are considered comparable to the statistics for England’s Type 1 accident and emergency departments.

Further notes that work is ongoing in partnership with service users and clinicians to review the way we measure the quality of care in emergency departments.

If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be de-selected.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new points after point 2 and renumber accordingly:

Notes that 82 per cent of clinical leads and consultants surveyed by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine have a negative view of the breach exemptions policy.

Regrets that accident and emergency waiting times have worsened since the policy was introduced over ten years ago.

Believes that the policy compromises the ability of emergency services to plan and manage their resources effectively.

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

In point 3, delete sub-point b) and replace with: rescind the breach exemptions policy in line with the wishes of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine.

Minutes:

The item started at 16.22

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8390 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the importance of meaningful and transparent data in improving care and patient safety.

2. Regrets the findings by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that headline emergency department performance data have not been accurately reported for more than a decade.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) routinely publish pre-exemption figures for Welsh emergency departments to better understand performance and to inform decision making;

b) explain why the performance data in responses provided by Welsh local health boards to the Royal College of Emergency Medicine under the Freedom of Information Act and emergency department performance data published by the Welsh Government appears to be different; and

c) commission an independent review of published data to ensure that they are comparable between the UK nations.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

14

0

38

52

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Notes the assurance from health boards that emergency department data have been reported in line with Welsh Government guidance.

Notes that the independent Office for Statistics Regulation has welcomed the steps the Welsh Government has taken to provide assurance on the quality of the statistics.

Notes that, based on compliance by health boards with the guidance we have in Wales, Welsh statistics for major emergency departments are considered comparable to the statistics for England’s Type 1 accident and emergency departments.

Further notes that work is ongoing in partnership with service users and clinicians to review the way we measure the quality of care in emergency departments.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

Add as new points after point 2 and renumber accordingly:

Notes that 82 per cent of clinical leads and consultants surveyed by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine have a negative view of the breach exemptions policy.

Regrets that accident and emergency waiting times have worsened since the policy was introduced over ten years ago.

Believes that the policy compromises the ability of emergency services to plan and manage their resources effectively.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 3 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

In point 3, delete sub-point b) and replace with: rescind the breach exemptions policy in line with the wishes of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine.

A vote was taken on amendment 3:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

 

(60 mins)

7.

Plaid Cymru Debate - Transport for Wales

NDM8389 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that it is five years since Transport for Wales took over the all-Wales rail franchise from Arriva Trains Wales.

2. Regrets that:

a) train service provision across Wales remains unacceptably unreliable and expensive, with only 57 per cent of services arriving on time between April and June 2023;

b) only 29 per cent of journeys are currently being undertaken on new trains, well below the 95 per cent target set by the Welsh Government for 2023; and

c) Transport for Wales has the lowest customer satisfaction ratings of all major UK rail operators.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure Transport for Wales delivers on the commitments made, and secure improvements in terms of punctuality and the upgrading of the stock, as well as planning for adequate services to coincide with major events in Wales.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete points 2 and 3 and replace with:

Acknowledges the impact on passengers of recent poor rail performance, with challenges including ageing and unreliable trains, industrial action in UK Government controlled companies, and the ongoing financial pressures caused by COVID and inflation. 

Welcomes the stabilisation of train performance delivered by Transport for Wales since August.

Welcomes the £1.1 billion investment in the core Valley lines and the £900 million investment in rolling stock across the Wales and borders network.

Looks forward to the step change for passengers as new rolling stock is introduced for 95 per cent of journeys by 2024, in line with the Programme for Government commitment.

Amendment 2 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to publish the business case from Transport for Wales to justify the £125 million of additional funding being provided to the company in the current financial year.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.18

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM8389 Heledd Fychan (South Wales Central)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that it is five years since Transport for Wales took over the all-Wales rail franchise from Arriva Trains Wales.

2. Regrets that:

a) train service provision across Wales remains unacceptably unreliable and expensive, with only 57 per cent of services arriving on time between April and June 2023;

b) only 29 per cent of journeys are currently being undertaken on new trains, well below the 95 per cent target set by the Welsh Government for 2023; and

c) Transport for Wales has the lowest customer satisfaction ratings of all major UK rail operators.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure Transport for Wales delivers on the commitments made, and secure improvements in terms of punctuality and the upgrading of the stock, as well as planning for adequate services to coincide with major events in Wales.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the motion. Therefore, the motion was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete points 2 and 3 and replace with:

Acknowledges the impact on passengers of recent poor rail performance, with challenges including ageing and unreliable trains, industrial action in UK Government controlled companies, and the ongoing financial pressures caused by COVID and inflation. 

Welcomes the stabilisation of train performance delivered by Transport for Wales since August.

Welcomes the £1.1 billion investment in the core Valley lines and the £900 million investment in rolling stock across the Wales and borders network.

Looks forward to the step change for passengers as new rolling stock is introduced for 95 per cent of journeys by 2024, in line with the Programme for Government commitment.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to publish the business case from Transport for Wales to justify the £125 million of additional funding being provided to the company in the current financial year.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

As required by Standing Order 6.20 the Presiding Officer exercised her casting vote by voting against the amendment. Therefore, the amendment was not agreed.

As the Senedd did not agree the motion without amendment, and did not agree the amendments tabled to the motion, the motion was therefore not agreed.

 

8.

Voting Time

Minutes:

The item started at 18.22

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

9.

Short Debate

NDM8388 Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)

Stroke awareness and the FAST/NESA campaign

Minutes:

The item started at 18.29

NDM8388 Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore)

Stroke awareness and the FAST/NESA campaign