Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd. View directions

Note: 23(v3) 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 06/10/2021 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

 

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Climate Change

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.31

The first 8 questions were asked. Questions 1, 2, 4 and 5 were answered by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Education and Welsh Language

The Presiding Officer will call Party Spokespeople to ask questions without notice after Question 2.

View Questions

Minutes:

The item started at 14.22

The questions 1-2 and 4-8 were asked. Question 3 was withdrawn. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

Llywydd's Statement

The Llywydd condemned the protests held on the Senedd estate the previous evening, informed Members that the relevant authorities were reviewing the events, and would provide an update to Members in due course.

(20 mins)

3.

Topical Questions

To ask the Minister for Social Justice

Sioned Williams (South Wales West): What does the Welsh Government intend to do to mitigate the effects of the UK Government's decision to remove the universal credit uplift from today?

Minutes:

The item started at 15.03

To ask the Minister for Social Justice

Sioned Williams (South Wales West): What does the Welsh Government intend to do to mitigate the effects of the UK Government’s decision to remove the universal credit uplift from today?

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 15.19

Mike Hedges made a statement on: Retirement of Joy Aman Davies as conductor of Morriston Orpheus after 30 years’ service with Choir.

Heledd Fychan made a statement on Remembering Magi Dodd, Radio Cymru producer and presenter.

Natasha Asghar made a statement on Breast Cancer Month.

 

(5 mins)

Motion to suspend Standing Orders to allow items 5–8 to be debated

The item started at 15.24

NDM7802 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Orders 33.6 and 33.8:

Suspends Standing Order 12.10(ii) and that part of Standing Order 11.16 that requires the weekly announcement under Standing Order 11.11 to constitute the timetable for business in Plenary for the following week, to allow NDM7798, NDM7799, NDM7800 and NDM 7801 to be considered in Plenary on Wednesday, 6 October 2021.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

(5 mins)

A proposal under Standing Order 12.24 to debate items 5–8 together but with separate votes was agreed.

5.

Motion under Standing Order 16.1 to establish a Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister

NDM7798 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1, establishes a Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to scrutinise the First Minister on any matter relevant to the exercise of the functions of the Welsh Government.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.24

NDM7798 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.1, establishes a Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister to scrutinise the First Minister on any matter relevant to the exercise of the functions of the Welsh Government.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6.

Motion under Standing Order 17.2T and 17.3 to elect members and a Chair to the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister

NDM7799 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S (election of committee chairs) shall not apply in relation to the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

2. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Jack Sargeant (Welsh Labour), Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives), Russell George (Welsh Conservatives) and Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru), as members of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister; and

b) David Rees (Deputy Presiding Officer) as Chair of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.24

NDM7799 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S (election of committee chairs) shall not apply in relation to the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

2. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) John Griffiths (Welsh Labour), Jenny Rathbone (Welsh Labour), Jack Sargeant (Welsh Labour), Paul Davies (Welsh Conservatives), Russell George (Welsh Conservatives) and Llyr Gruffydd (Plaid Cymru), as members of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister; and

b) David Rees (Deputy Presiding Officer) as Chair of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

7.

Motion under Standing Order 16.5 to establish a Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform

NDM7781 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.5:

1. Establishes a Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

2. Agrees that the remit of the Committee is:

a) to consider the conclusions previously reached by the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform in the Fifth Senedd as set out in its report Senedd reform: The next steps laid before the Senedd on 10 September 2020;

b) by 31 May 2022, to make recommendations for policy instructions for a Welsh Government Bill on Senedd Reform.

3. Agrees that the Committee will be dissolved following a Plenary debate on its final report.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.24

NDM7801 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 16.5:

1. Establishes a Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

2. Agrees that the remit of the Committee is:

a) to consider the conclusions previously reached by the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform in the Fifth Senedd as set out in its report Senedd reform: The next steps laid before the Senedd on 10 September 2020;

b) by 31 May 2022, to make recommendations for policy instructions for a Welsh Government Bill on Senedd Reform.

3. Agrees that the Committee will be dissolved following a Plenary debate on its final report.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

8.

Motion under Standing Order 17.2T, 17.3, 33.6 and 33.8 to elect members and a Chair to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform, to suspend Standing Orders in relation to that committee, and to agree voting arrangements in the committee

NDM7800 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S (election of committee chairs) shall not apply in relation to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

2. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Darren Millar (Welsh Conservatives), Sian Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), and Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat) as members of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

b) Elin Jones (Llywydd) as a member of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

c) Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour) as Chair of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

3. In accordance with Standing Orders 33.6 and 33.8, resolves that Standing Orders 17.37 to 17.39 shall not apply in relation to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

4. Resolves that, where a vote is necessary to dispose of business, voting in the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform will operate as follows:

a) the chair may vote only in the exercise of a casting vote;

b) the Llywydd may not vote;

c) all other members of the Committee may vote and, if they belong to a political group, each member carries one vote for each member of the political group to which they belong (including himself or herself and the Presiding Officer and Deputy if they are members of his or her political group);

d) a resolution to agree  recommendations to the Senedd must be passed on a vote in which the members voting in favour carry at least 40 votes.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.24

NDM7800 Elin Jones (Ceredigion)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. In accordance with Standing Order 17.2T, resolves that Standing Orders 17.2A to 17.2S (election of committee chairs) shall not apply in relation to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

2. In accordance with Standing Order 17.3, elects:

a) Jayne Bryant (Welsh Labour), Darren Millar (Welsh Conservatives), Sian Gwenllian (Plaid Cymru), and Jane Dodds (Liberal Democrat) as members of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

b) Elin Jones (Llywydd) as a member of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform;

c) Huw Irranca-Davies (Welsh Labour) as Chair of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

3. In accordance with Standing Orders 33.6 and 33.8, resolves that Standing Orders 17.37 to 17.39 shall not apply in relation to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform.

4. Resolves that, where a vote is necessary to dispose of business, voting in the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform will operate as follows:

a) the chair may vote only in the exercise of a casting vote;

b) the Llywydd may not vote;

c) all other members of the Committee may vote and, if they belong to a political group, each member carries one vote for each member of the political group to which they belong (including himself or herself and the Presiding Officer and Deputy if they are members of his or her political group);

d) a resolution to agree recommendations to the Senedd must be passed on a vote in which the members voting in favour carry at least 40 votes.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 15.25 the meeting was suspended by the Presiding Officer.

 

(60 mins)

9.

Welsh Conservatives Debate – Mental health

NDM7793 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Sunday 10 October is world mental health day.

2. Recognises the impact of COVID-19 on mental health support and mental health inequalities.

3. Regrets that the number of young people presenting at hospital with self-harming issues has risen by 39 per cent since 2007.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to include in its replacement 10-year mental health strategy next year:

a) actions to implement recommendations from the Fifth Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee’s reports, Mind over Matter and Mind over Matter: Two years on;

b) annual reports and the establishment of targets for waiting times for mental health treatment, including the reduction of backlogs;

c) a national rollout of 24-hour mental health crisis centres;

d) a clear mental health workforce plan.

5. Further calls on the Welsh Government to introduce a new mental health Act.

Mind Over Matter

Mind Over Matter: Two years on

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after point 2 and replace with:

Notes the commitment to review the evidence, data and current service provision around all age self-harm in Wales.

Welcomes the Welsh Government's continued commitment to:

a) implement recommendations from the Fifth Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee’s reports, Mind over Matter and Mind over Matter: Two years on;

b) strengthen and publish mental health waiting time data and improve performance across Wales;

c) a national roll-out of 24-hour mental health crisis support;

d) a clear mental health workforce plan.

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure the reform of the UK Mental Health Act is fit for Wales and aligns with current related legislation in Wales.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

Add as new sub-point at end of point 4:

'the roll-out of a network of preventative youth mental health and wellbeing centres’.

Minutes:

The item started at 15.37

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7793 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Sunday 10 October is world mental health day.

2. Recognises the impact of COVID-19 on mental health support and mental health inequalities.

3. Regrets that the number of young people presenting at hospital with self-harming issues has risen by 39 per cent since 2007.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to include in its replacement 10-year mental health strategy next year:

a) actions to implement recommendations from the Fifth Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee’s reports, Mind over Matter and Mind over Matter: Two years on;

b) annual reports and the establishment of targets for waiting times for mental health treatment, including the reduction of backlogs;

c) a national rollout of 24-hour mental health crisis centres;

d) a clear mental health workforce plan.

5. Further calls on the Welsh Government to introduce a new mental health Act.

Mind Over Matter  

Mind Over Matter: Two years on

For

Abstain

Against

Total

14

0

39

53

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all after point 2 and replace with:  

Notes the commitment to review the evidence, data and current service provision around all age self-harm in Wales.

Welcomes the Welsh Government's continued commitment to:

a) implement recommendations from the Fifth Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee’s reports, Mind over Matter and Mind over Matter: Two years on;

b) strengthen and publish mental health waiting time data and improve performance across Wales;

c) a national roll-out of 24-hour mental health crisis support;

d) a clear mental health workforce plan.

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure the reform of the UK Mental Health Act is fit for Wales and aligns with current related legislation in Wales.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

26

53

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As amendment 1 was agreed, amendment 2 was de-selected.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Sunday 10 October is world mental health day.

2. Recognises the impact of COVID-19 on mental health support and mental health inequalities.

3. Notes the commitment to review the evidence, data and current service provision around all age self-harm in Wales.

4. Welcomes the Welsh Government's continued commitment to:

a) implement recommendations from the Fifth Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee’s reports, Mind over Matter and Mind over Matter: Two years on;

b) strengthen and publish mental health waiting time data and improve performance across Wales;

c) a national roll-out of 24-hour mental health crisis support;

d) a clear mental health workforce plan.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure the reform of the UK Mental Health Act is fit for Wales and aligns with current related legislation in Wales.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

52

0

1

53

The motion as amended was agreed.

 

(30 mins)

10.

Plaid Cymru debate – Healthcare workers’ pay

NDM7791 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports Unite, Unison and the Royal College of Nursing’s efforts to achieve fair pay for all healthcare workers.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government, in its current discussions with the healthcare unions, to commit to a real terms pay rise above that proposed by the NHS pay review body.

The following amendments have been tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the dedication and sacrifice of all staff in the health and social care workforce in Wales.

2. Welcomes the historic levels of funding by Her Majesty’s Government to all regions and nations of the UK, including Wales, in successive budgets and in the fight against COVID-19.

3. Notes the recommendations from the independent NHS pay review body in Wales and the Welsh Government’s decision to award NHS staff a 3 per cent pay rise.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to urgently tackle working conditions such as mental health support, retention, upskilling and filling staffing gaps within the NHS, to ensure we have a workforce fit for the future.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be de-selected]

Amendment 2 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to continue to engage with NHS Wales trade unions including on NHS pay.

Minutes:

The item started at 16.31

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7791 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports Unite, Unison and the Royal College of Nursing’s efforts to achieve fair pay for all healthcare workers.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government, in its current discussions with the healthcare unions, to commit to a real terms pay rise above that proposed by the NHS pay review body.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

12

0

41

53

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Recognises the dedication and sacrifice of all staff in the health and social care workforce in Wales.

2. Welcomes the historic levels of funding by Her Majesty’s Government to all regions and nations of the UK, including Wales, in successive budgets and in the fight against COVID-19.

3. Notes the recommendations from the independent NHS pay review body in Wales and the Welsh Government’s decision to award NHS staff a 3 per cent pay rise.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to urgently tackle working conditions such as mental health support, retention, upskilling and filling staffing gaps within the NHS, to ensure we have a workforce fit for the future.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

14

0

39

53

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

Amendment 2 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete point 2 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to continue to engage with NHS Wales trade unions including on NHS pay.

A vote was taken on amendment 2:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

26

53

Amendment 2 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM7791 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Supports Unite, Unison and the Royal College of Nursing’s efforts to achieve fair pay for all healthcare workers.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to continue to engage with NHS Wales trade unions including on NHS pay.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

39

14

0

53

The motion as amended was agreed.

(30 mins)

11.

Plaid Cymru Debate – NHS winter pressures

NDM7792 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

Calls on the Welsh Government to publish a winter plan to tackle the pressures faced by the NHS during the winter months.

The following amendment has been tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes that the Welsh Government will publish a health and social care winter plan in the week commencing 18 October 2021.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.04

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7792 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

Calls on the Welsh Government to publish a winter plan to tackle the pressures faced by the NHS during the winter months.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

26

0

27

53

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Lesley Griffiths (Wrexham)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes that the Welsh Government will publish a health and social care winter plan in the week commencing 18 October 2021.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

53

0

0

53

Amendment 1 was agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM7792 Sian Gwenllian (Arfon)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes that the Welsh Government will publish a health and social care winter plan in the week commencing 18 October 2021.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

53

0

0

53

The motion as amended was agreed.

12.

Voting Time

Minutes:

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 17.30 proceedings were suspended to allow a technical break before voting time.

The item started at 17.34

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

13.

Short Debate

NDM7790 Peredur Owen Griffiths (South Wales East)

Fit for the 21st Century: how can Wales give better support to help people overcome substance addiction.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.41

NDM7790 Peredur Owen Griffiths (South Wales East)

Fit for the 21st Century: how can Wales give better support to help people overcome substance addiction.