Meetings

4.1 The correspondence was noted by the Committee

Ken Skates AM, Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport

Simon Jones, Director - Economic Infrastructure

Marcella Maxwell, Head of Economic Action Plan Implementation

Dean Medcraft, Director- Finance & Operations

6.1 The item was cancelled

Members noted the response from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport.  Members agreed to seek clarification on the commitment from the Welsh Government that they would no longer accept committee recommendations ‘in principle’, and whether this applies to all reports or just those published by the Public Accounts Committee.

NDM6657 Julie James (Swansea West)

To propose that the Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 20.30, approves the Second Supplementary Budget for the financial year 2017-18 laid in the Table Office and emailed to Assembly Members on Tuesday, 6 February 2018.

Footnote:

In accordance with the relevant provisions contained in the Government of Wales Act 2006 and Standing Order 20, the Supplementary Budget comprises the following information:

i. the written statement required under section 125(3) of the Government of Wales Act 2006;

ii. the resources agreed by the Treasury for the Welsh block budget for the financial year covered by the motion;

iii. a reconciliation between the resources allocated to the Welsh block budget by the Treasury and the resources to be authorised for use in the motion;

iv. a reconciliation between the estimated amounts to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund by the Secretary of State and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Fund in the motion; and

v. a reconciliation between the resources to be authorised under section 125(1)(a) and (b) of the Act and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Welsh Consolidated Fund under section 125(1)(c).

The following additional information has been made available to Members:

 - a note explaining the main changes from previous plans.

Supporting Document
Report of the Finance Committee

The item started at 16.31

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM6657 Julie James (Swansea West)

To propose that the Assembly, in accordance with Standing Order 20.30, approves the Second Supplementary Budget for the financial year 2017-18 laid in the Table Office and emailed to Assembly Members on Tuesday, 6 February 2018.

Footnote:

In accordance with the relevant provisions contained in the Government of Wales Act 2006 and Standing Order 20, the Supplementary Budget comprises the following information:

i. the written statement required under section 125(3) of the Government of Wales Act 2006;

ii. the resources agreed by the Treasury for the Welsh block budget for the financial year covered by the motion;

iii. a reconciliation between the resources allocated to the Welsh block budget by the Treasury and the resources to be authorised for use in the motion;

iv. a reconciliation between the estimated amounts to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund by the Secretary of State and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Fund in the motion; and

v. a reconciliation between the resources to be authorised under section 125(1)(a) and (b) of the Act and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Welsh Consolidated Fund under section 125(1)(c).

The following additional information has been made available to Members:

 - a note explaining the main changes from previous plans.

The result was as follows:

The motion was agreed.

4.4 Members raised some concerns and decided to write to the minister.

Ken Skates AM, Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Transport

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AM, Minister for Culture, Tourism and Sport

Jason Thomas, Director, Culture, Sport and Tourism

Huw Davies, Head of Finance, Culture, Sport & Tourism

Kirsty Williams AM, Cabinet Secretary for Education

Steve Davies, Director, Education Directorate

Bethan Webb, Deputy Director, Welsh Language

Eluned Morgan AM, Minister for Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning

Bethan Webb, Deputy Director, Welsh Language

Iwan Evans, Senior Policy Officer, Strategic Planning

3.1a The Committee noted the correspondence.

6.3a The Committee noted the letter from the Cabinet Secretary and Minister.

3.1 The Committee discussed the In-year financial scrutiny

Ken Skates AM, Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure

Simon Jones, Director, Transport & ICT Infrastructure, Welsh Government

Mick McGuire, Director, Sectors and Business, Welsh Government

4.1 Ken Skates AM, Simon Jones, Mick McGuire and Dean Medcraft answered questions from Committee Members

4.2 The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, agreed to provide the Committee with further details on the In-year financial scrutiny.

4.3 Simon Jones agreed to send a note to the Committee on Construction Inflation Indices

Vaughan Gething AM, Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport

Rebecca Evans AM, Minister for Social Services and Public Health

Andrew Goodall, Director General, Health

Alan Brace, Finance Director, Health

Albert Heaney, Director, Social Services and Integration

2.1 The Committee received evidence from the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport and the Minister for Social Services and Public Health and their officials.

2.2 The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport agreed to provide the Committee with a note outlining the progress of the Inverse Care Law Programme pilots underway in the Aneurin Bevan and Cwm Taf University Health Boards.

5.1 The Committee considered the evidence given by the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister and their officials.

7.1 The Committee considered its approach to in-year scrutiny of the Welsh Government’s budget for 2017-18.

4.1 This paper was noted by the committee

NDM6192 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.25, approves the Annual Budget for the financial year 2017-18 laid in the Table Office by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on 20 December 2016.

Footnote:

In accordance with the relevant provisions contained in the Government of Wales Act 2006 and Standing Order 20.28, the Annual Budget comprises the following information:

1. the written statement required under section 125(3) of the Government of Wales Act 2006

2. the resources agreed by the Treasury for the Welsh block budget for the financial year covered by the motion;

3. a reconciliation between the resources allocated to the Welsh block budget by the Treasury and the resources to be authorised for use in the motion;

4. a reconciliation between the estimated amounts to be paid into the Welsh Consolidated Fund by the Secretary of State and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Fund in the motion; and

5. a reconciliation between the resources to be authorised under section 125(1)(a) and (b) of the Act and the amounts to be authorised for payment out of the Welsh Consolidated Fund under section 125(1)(c).

The following additional information has been made available to Members:

•        an Explanatory Note on changes between Draft Budget proposals and the Annual Budget.

Supporting Documents
The Annual Budget for the financial year 2017-18
Report of the Finance Committee

The item started at 16.46

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion:

NDM6192 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan)

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.25, approves the Annual Budget for the financial year 2017-18 laid in the Table Office by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on 20 December 2016.

The motion was agreed.

4.1 The Committee noted the letter from the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister regarding the Welsh Government's draft budget 2017-18.

4.5.a. The Committee noted the correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children in relation to the Welsh Government draft budget 2017-18.

4.4.a. The Committee noted the correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government in relation to the Welsh Government draft budget 2017-18.

NDM6179 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan):
 
To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.12:

Notes the Draft Budget for the financial year 2017-2018 laid in the Table Office by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on 18 October 2016.

'The Draft Budget Proposals 2017-18'

Supporting Documents
Draft Budget for the financial year 2017-2018
Finance Committee – Scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget 2017-18

The following amendment has been tabled:

Amendment 1. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Does not believe the Welsh Government's draft Budget 2017-18 meets the needs of the Welsh people.

The item started at 16.22

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM6179 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan):

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.12:

Notes the Draft Budget for the financial year 2017-2018 laid in the Table Office by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on 18 October 2016.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1. Paul Davies (Preseli Pembrokeshire)

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Does not believe the Welsh Government's draft Budget 2017-18 meets the needs of the Welsh people.

A vote was taken on Amendment 1:

Amendment 1 was not agreed.

A vote was taken on the motion:

NDM6179 Jane Hutt (Vale of Glamorgan):

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 20.12:

Notes the Draft Budget for the financial year 2017-2018 laid in the Table Office by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on 18 October 2016.

The motion was agreed.

4.2.1 The responses from the Minister for Skills and Science were noted by the Committee.

4.1.1 The responses from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure were noted by the Committee.

Paper 1 – Scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget 2017-18 - Draft report

Paper 2 – Letter from the Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

Paper 3 – Letter from the Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children

Paper 4 – Letter from the Chair of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee to the Finance Committee

Paper 5 – Letter from the Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee to the Finance Committee

Paper 6 – Letter from the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs

Paper 7 – Letter from the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children

Paper 8 – Letter from the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Education

Paper 9 – Letter from the Chair of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport

3.1 The Committee agreed the draft report with minor changes.

Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

Margaret Davies, Deputy Director - Strategic Budgeting, Welsh Government

Andrew Jeffreys, Director - Treasury, Welsh Government

4.1 The Committee took evidence from Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government; Margaret Davies, Deputy Director - Strategic Budgeting, Welsh Government; and Andrew Jeffreys, Director - Treasury, Welsh Government.

6.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

6.1 The Committee considered and agreed its letter to the Cabinet Secretary and Minister in relation to the draft budget 2017-18.

3.2.1 The paper was noted by the Committee

5.1 The Committee considered the draft letters.

 Members agreed the Draft Letter to the Finance Committee on the Welsh Government’s Draft Budget 2017-18

Subject to a few minor amendments the Committee agreed the draft budget letters.

The Committee discussed the evidence heard during the session.

The Committee agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary about the issues raised during the session.

Welsh Government

Kirsty Williams AM – Cabinet Secretary for Education

Alun Davies AM – Minister for Lifelong Learning & Welsh Language

Huw Morris - Director Skills, Higher Education and Lifelong Learning (SHELL) 

Steve Davies - Director, Education Directorate

The Committee scrutinised the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister on the draft budget.

6.1 The Committee considered the draft letter

6.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

David Robinson, OBE, Senior Advisor, Community Links

Professor Ceri Phillip, Professor of Health Economics, Swansea University

Professor Marcus Longley, Director of the Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care and Professor of Applied Health Policy, University of South Wales

Anita Charlesworth, Director of Research and Economics, Health Foundation

Paper 2 – Community Links - written evidence

Paper 3 – University of South Wales - written evidence

Paper 4 – Health Foundation – written evidence

4.1 The Committee took evidence from David Robinson, OBE, Senior Advisor, Community Links, Professor Ceri Phillip, Professor of Health Economics, Swansea University, Professor Marcus Longley, Director of the Welsh Institute for Health and Social Care and Professor of Applied Health Policy, University of South Wales and Anita Charlesworth, Director of Research and Economics, Health Foundation.

Mari Thomas, Finance Policy Officer, Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA)

Jon Rae, Director of Resources, Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA)

Councillor Huw David (Deputy Leader, Bridgend County Borough Council), WLGA Spokesperson for Health and Social Care

Councillor Anthony Hunt (Deputy Leader, Torfaen County Borough Council), WLGA Deputy Spokesperson for Finance and Resources

Paper 1 – Welsh Local Government Association – written evidence

3.1 The Committee took evidence from Mari Thomas, Finance Policy Officer, Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA), Jon Rae, Director of Resources, WLGA, Councillor Huw David (Leader, Bridgend County Borough Council), WLGA Spokesperson for Health and Social Care and Councillor Anthony Hunt (Deputy Leader, Torfaen County Borough Council), WLGA Deputy Spokesperson for Finance and Resources.

3.2 The WLGA agreed to provide a note on its assessment of the sufficiency of the 2017-18 budget to deal with the Public Health (Wales) Bill.

Carl Sargeant AM, Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children

Jo-Anne Daniels, Director, Communities and Tackling Poverty
John Howells, Director of Housing and Regeneration

2.1. The Committee received evidence from:

·         Carl Sargeant AM, Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children

·         Jo-Anne Daniels, Director, Communities and Tackling Poverty

·         John Howells, Director of Housing and Regeneration

3.1.a. The Committee noted the correspondence between the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government and the Chair of Finance Committee.

5.1. The Committee discussed the evidence received and agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children setting out its views on the draft budget 2017-18, relating to the portfolio.

Ken Skates AM, Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure

James Price, Deputy Permanent Secretary, Economy, Skills & Natural Resources

Simon Jones, Director Transport and ICT Infrastructure

Mick McGuire, Director, Sectors and Business

2.1 The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure and his officials answered questions from Committee Members.

2.2 The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure agreed to provide:

·         a note on the process followed by his department when undertaking Welsh Language impact assessments across his portfolio;

·         a note on the funding being received by the Botanical Gardens for Wales for 2017-18;

·         a note on how the activities his department is responsible for delivering are aligned with the programme for Government and what specific budget lines they refer to;

·         a report on the Zip World investment which demonstrates how Visit Wales spend is effectively evaluated;

·         a note on the separation of spending lines for different forms of media in relation to Visit Wales’ marketing campaigns;

·         a note for comparison on the different procurement processes being used by the Welsh Government and the Department for Transport in relation to rail franchises;

·         a note on the funding for Transport for Wales; and

·         a note on the rail franchise tender specification information upon which potential bidders are basing their proposals.

5.1 The Committee discussed the evidence from the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport and the Minister for Social Services and Public Health.

5.2 The Committee agreed that, following the session, the Chair would write to the Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport and the Minister for Social Services and the Public Health with some additional questions and observations about the draft budget.

Vaughan Gething AM, Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport

Rebecca Evans AM, Minister for Social Services and Public Health

Andrew Goodall, Director General Health and Social Services / Chief Executive NHS Wales

Alan Brace, Director of Finance

Albert Heaney, Director of Social Services and Integration

3.1 The Committee took evidence from Vaughan Gething AM, Cabinet Secretary for Health, Well-being and Sport; Rebecca Evans AM, Minister for Social Services and Public Health, Andrew Goodall, Director General Health and Social Services / Chief Executive NHS Wales, Alan Brace, Director of Finance and Albert Heaney, Director of Social Services and Integration.

Professor Rhiannon Tudor Edwards, Director of Health Economics Research, Bangor University

1.1 The Committee heard from Professor Rhiannon Tudor Edwards, Director of Health Economics Research, Bangor University, as part of its preparations for scrutiny of the Welsh Government’s draft budget for 2017-18.

Julie James AM, Minister for Skills and Science

Huw Morris, Group Director SHELL

Steve Hudson, Senior Finance Manage

3.1 The Minister for Skills and Science and her officials answered questions from Committee Members.

3.2 The Minister for Skills and Science agreed to provide:

·         a note on outlining any implications for the Draft Budgetary provision as a result of changes to the National Occupational Standards (NOS) framework, as a result of the UK Government’s decision to no longer fund upkeep of the NOS framework; and

·         a breakdown into specific adult employability programmes of the budget allocation for Employment and Skills.

6.1 The Committee discussed their priorities following sessions on draft budget scrutiny.

Vanessa Young, Director of the Welsh NHS Confederation

Gary Doherty, Chief Executive, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (representing all NHS Wales Chief Executives)

Eifion Williams, Director of Finance, Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board (representing NHS Wales Directors of Finance)

Steve Webster, Director of Finance /Deputy Chief Executive Officer, Cwm Taf University Health Board

Paper 9 - Welsh NHS Confederation – written evidence

7.1 The Committee took evidence from Vanessa Young, Director of the Welsh NHS Confederation, Gary Doherty, Chief Executive, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board (representing all NHS Wales Chief Executives), Eifion Williams, Director of Finance, Powys Teaching Health Board (representing NHS Wales Directors of Finance) and Steve Webster, Director of Finance /Deputy Chief Executive Officer, Cwm Taf University Health Board.

7.2 The NHS Confederation agreed to:

·         confirm whether 3 or 5 per cent of people working in health and social care in Wales are EU citizens; and

·         ask the National Procurement Service whether it is seeing any impact of increased prices through exchange rate changes or in terms of inflation.

Natasha Davies, Policy Partner, Chwarae Teg

Anne Meikle, Head of WWF Cymru

Toby Roxburgh, Applied Economics Specialist, WWF UK

Paper 6 - WWF Cymru – written evidence

Paper 7 - Chwarae Teg – written evidence

Paper 8 – Letter from the Future Generations Commissioner

6.1 The Committee took evidence from Natasha Davies, Policy Partner, Chwarae Teg, Anne Meikle, Head of WWF Cymru, and Toby Roxburgh, Applied Economics Specialist, WWF UK.

10.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

Reg Kilpatrick, Director for Local Government

Debra Carter, Deputy Director Local Government Finance Policy

2.1. The Committee received evidence from:

·         Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

·         Reg Kilpatrick, Director for Local Government

·         Debra Carter, Deputy Director Local Government Finance Policy

5.1. The Committee discussed the evidence received and agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government setting out its views on the draft budget 2017-18, relating to the local government portfolio.

Martin Jennings, Financial Scrutiny Unit, Research Service

4.1 The Committee considered and agreed its approach.

Alun Davies AM, Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language

Bethan Webb, Deputy Director - Welsh Language

Awen Penri, Head of Welsh in Education Development Branch

4.1 The Minister answered questions from members of the Committee.

4.1 The Minister agreed to write to Committee detailing how much of the £4.85m allocated to the development of Welsh for Adults is left to support ‘on the ground work’.

Ken Skates AM, Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure

Manon Antoniazzi, Director Culture, Sport & Tourism

Huw Davies, Head of Finance for Culture, Sport & Tourism

3.1 The Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure answered questions from Members of the Committee.

3.2 The Cabinet Secretary agreed to provide a list of the sites being allocated additional capital spend resulting from the additional income generated by Cadw sites.

Lesley Griffiths AM, Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs

Andrew Slade, Director, Agriculture, Food and Marine

Dr Christianne Glossop, Director, Office of the Chief Veterinary Officer

Matthew Quinn, Director, Environment and Sustainable Development

Tony Clark, Head of Finance, Economy, Skills and Natural Resources Group

5.1 The Cabinet Secretary and her officials responded to questions from Members.

The Committee discussed the evidence heard during the session.

The Committee agreed to write to the Cabinet Secretary about the issues raised during the session.

Welsh Government

Carl Sargeant AM, Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children

Albert Heaney, Director, Social Services and Integration

Jo-Anne Daniels, Director, Communities and Tackling Poverty

Nigel Brown, Interim Chief Executive, CAFCASS Cymru

• Martin Jennings, Finance and Statistics, Research Team Leader

7.1 Members of the Committee received a briefing on the Welsh Government’s Draft Budget.

Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government

Margaret Davies, Deputy Director - Strategic Budgeting, Welsh Government

Andrew Jeffreys, Director - Treasury, Welsh Government

Paper 1 – Summary of consultation responses

Paper 2 – Letter from the Chair of the Petitions Committee – 3 August 2016 – Petition P-04-660 Additional Pressures on Funding for Education Provision Faced by Sparsely Populated Areas

3.1 The Committee took evidence from Mark Drakeford AM, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government; Margaret Davies, Deputy Director - Strategic Budgeting, Welsh Government; and Andrew Jeffreys, Director - Treasury, Welsh Government.

3.2 The Cabinet Secretary agreed to provide a note on the level of borrowing or debt supported by the Welsh Government.

Martin Jennings, Finance and Statistics, Research Service

1.1 Committee Members undertook financial scrutiny training.

3.2.1 The paper was noted by the Committee.

2.3a The Committee noted the letter from the Finance Committee regarding the Welsh Government draft budget 2017-18.

Paper 2 – Committee approach to scrutiny of the draft budget

7.1 The Committee agreed its approach to scrutiny of the Welsh Government Draft Budget for 2017-18.

7.2 The Committee agreed to hold a public consultation on proposals for the draft budget to steer the Committee’s scrutiny, to be held over the Summer Recess.

Letter from the Chair of the Finance Committee regarding the Draft Budget Timetable

The Committee considered a letter from the Chair of the Finance Committee requesting a week’s extension to the proposed timetable, from four to five sitting weeks, to allow full and proper scrutiny of the Draft Budget.

Simon Thomas, Paul Davies and Mark Reckless agreed that the Finance Committee should be allowed a week’s extension, but the Leader of the House explained that this would cause difficulties for the government.

Business Managers requested that Government and Commission officials explore possible options and that the Committee to return to the matter at the first week back after summer recess.