Meetings

NDM5165 Mark Drakeford (Cardiff West)

The National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Health and Social Care Committee on its inquiry into residential care for older people in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 13 December 2012.

Note: The Welsh Government's response to the report was laid in the Table Office on 13 February 2013.

Supporting Documents:
The report of the Health and Social Care Committee on its inquiry into residential care for older people in Wales

Welsh Government's response

The item started at 15.00

NDM5165 Mark Drakeford (Cardiff West)

The National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Health and Social Care Committee on its inquiry into residential care for older people in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 13 December 2012.

Note: The Welsh Government's response to the report was laid in the Table Office on 13 February 2013.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

1.1 The Committee considered and agreed the draft report.

5.1 The Committee considered the draft report and agreed to schedule a session to consider it again on 21 November.

4.1 The Committee considered the draft report and agreed to schedule a session to consider it again on 15 November.

5.1 The Committee considered the draft report and agreed to schedule a session to consider it again on 7 November.

HSC(4)-25-12 paper 4

HSC(4)-25-12 paper 5

Note of reference group meeting 24 May

HSC(4)-23-12 paper 5

Note of reference group meeting 12 June

HSC(4)-23-12 paper 6

5.2 The Committee noted the papers.

5.3 The Chair recorded the Committee’s thanks for the work undertaken by – and the valuable contribution of – the members of the Reference Group, established to assist the Committee in its inquiry into residential care for older people.

8.1 The Committee discussed and agreed the key issues for the report on the inquiry into residential care for older people.

1.1 The Committee discussed the emerging key issues for the inquiry into Residential Care for Older People.

HSC(4)-18-12 paper 1

Gwenda Thomas AM, Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services

Steve Milsom, Deputy Director, Adult Social Services Policy Division

3.1 The Deputy Minister and officials responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

3.2 The Deputy Minister agreed to provide information in writing on how CSSIW is consulting with trade unions as part of its plan to modernise the regulation and inspection process, and to ask the Minister for Housing, Regeneration and Heritage to provide information on Welsh Government targets for increasing the use of extra care facilities as a means of meeting the needs of older people.

10.45 – 11.30 Care Forum Wales and Haulfryn care home

HSC(4)-17-12 paper 1- Care Forum Wales

HSC(4)-17-12 paper 1a - Care Forum Wales – Additional information

          Mario Kreft, Chair, Care Forum Wales

Mary Wimbury, Senior Policy Adviser, Care Forum Wales

Peter Regan, Haulfryn care home

Sandra Regan, Haulfryn care home

11.30 – 12.15 BUPA

HSC(4)-17-12 paper 2

          Matthew Flinton, Director of Legal and Policy

12.15 – 13.00 Terra Firma / Four Seasons

HSC(4)-17-12 paper 3

Eithne Wallis, Terra Firma

Jim McColl, Managing Director Wales and Northern Ireland, Four Seasons

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 Mario Kreft agreed to provide information in writing in relation to the licencing arrangements included in the Social Services White paper.

2.3 Matthew Flinton agreed to provide a copy of the evidence submitted by BUPA to the Dilnot Commission; information in writing on the company’s turnover in relation to its care homes in Powys; and further information on whether people need to move between BUPA care homes in Powys as their condition changes or worsens and the potential impact of this given the rural nature of the county.

09.30 – 10.45: Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales & Health Inspectorate Wales

HSC(4)-16-12 paper 2 – Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales and Health Inspectorate Wales

HSC(4)-16-12 paper 3 – Update from Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales

Imelda Richardson, Chief Inspector, Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales

David Francis, Assistant Chief Inspector, Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales

Kevin Barker, Inspector, Care and Social Services Inspectorate Wales

Peter Higson, Chief Executive, Health Inspectorate Wales

Mandy Collins, Deputy Chief Executive and Director, Inspection and Regulation, Health Inspectorate Wales

10.45 – 10.50: Break

10.50– 11.50: Care Council for Wales

HSC(4)-16-12 paper 4

Rhian Huws Williams, Chief Executive

Gerry Evans, Director of Regulation and Professional Standards

3.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

3.2 Ms Huws Williams and Mr Evans agreed to provide information on the timescale required to upskill the social care workforce to be able to respond to residents with a wider range of needs, including those with dementia, and to provide a copy of the evidence provided by the Care Council for Wales to the Enterprise and Business Committee on apprenticeships.

3.3 Mr Evans agreed to provide a copy of report on the ‘Care at home’ research project.

HSC(4)-15-12 paper 6 - Note of visit to Linc Care's Llys Enfys Development

HSC(4)-15-12 Paper 7- Note of visit to Hafod Care's Woodcroft Development

HSC(4)-15-12 paper 8 - Note of visit to Bethel House

HSC(4)-15-12 paper 9 - Note of reference group meeting 17 April 2012

3.1 The Committee discussed their engagement work on the inquiry into Residential Care for older people.

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 4 – GMB

                Paul Gage, Organiser, GMB South Western Region

          Donna Hutton, Unison Social Services

3.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 5 – British Association of Social Workers

          Dr Catherine Poulter, British Association of Social Workers

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 6 – Social Care Association

          Nick Johnson, Chief Executive, Social Care Association

          Sue Davis, Deputy Manager

          Sarah Owen, Residential Manager

4.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

4.2 The Committee requested a paper from the Research Service on the current guidelines for staff to resident ratio in care homes.

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 1 – Royal College of Psychiatrists

          Dr Pauline Ruth, Royal College of Psychiatrists

Dr Kathryn Williamson, Royal College of Psychiatrists

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 2 – Royal College of Nursing Wales

Lisa Turnbull, Policy & Public Affairs Adviser, RCN Wales

Sue Thomas, Primary Care & Independent Sector Adviser, RCN Wales

HSC(4)-14-12 paper 3 – College of Occupational Therapists

Ruth Crowder, Policy Officer, College of Occupational Therapists

Eve Parkinson, College of Occupational Therapists

Chris Synan, College of Occupational Therapists

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 7

4.3 The Committee noted the letter from the Secretary of State for Wales and agreed to share a copy with the Older People’s Commissioner for Wales.

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 3 – Alzheimer’s Society

          Sue Phelps, Acting Director for Wales

          Chris Quince, Senior Policy Officer

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 4 – Parkinson’s UK Cymru

          Steve Ford, Chief Executive

          Val Baker, Parkinson’s UK Cymru

2.4 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 2

          Rachel Lewis, Age Alliance Wales Officer

          Angela Roberts, Vice Chair

2.3 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 1 – Community Housing Cymru and Care and Repair Cymru

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 1a – Cymorth Cymru

          Nick Bennett, Chief Executive, Community Housing Cymru

          Richard Davies, Executive Director, Gwalia Housing Group

Kevin Hughes, Director of Care & Support, Pennaf Housing Group

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 The witnesses agreed to provide information on the proportion of members of housing group boards that are in residential care.

HSC(4)-13-12 paper 5

4.1 The Committee noted the letter from the Auditor General for Wales.

HSC(4)-12-12 paper 2

          Francis McGlone, Senior Policy Officer

Colin Angel, Director of Policy and Communication

2.3 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-12-12 paper 1

          Ed Bridges, WRVS

          Philippa Ford, Chartered Society of Physiotherapy

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 The witnesses agreed to provide written information on whether their members would support a re-ablement pilot specifically for those with dementia.

HSC(4)-12-12 paper 5

3.4 The Committee noted the paper.

David Street, ADSS Cymru

Emily Warren, Welsh Local Government Association

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 4 – ADSS Cymru & WLGA

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 5 – City & County of Swansea

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 6 – Monmouthshire County Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 7 – Bridgend County Borough Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 8 – Cardiff Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 9 – Pembrokeshire County Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 10 – Conwy County Borough Council

3.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

3.2 Emily Warren agreed to provide a copy of the implementation plan for local authorities working in partnership with the NHS and information on local authorities’ progress in developing reablement services.

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 1

Bob Gatis, Service Director Community Care, Rhondda Cynon Tâf County Borough Council

Luisa Bridgman, Service Manager, Rhondda Cynon Tâf County Borough Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 2

          Susie Lunt, Service Manager, Flintshire County Council

HSC(4)-11-12 paper 3

Parry Davies, Director of Social Services, Ceredigion County Council

4.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

4.2 The witnesses agreed to provide information on the number of instances per year of people who had previously funded their own residential care but then required the local authority to fund their care once their own funds had been exhausted. 

2.1 Professor Bolton responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people in Wales.

Carol Shillabeer, Executive Director Nursing, Powys Teaching Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 1 - Powys Teaching Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 2 – Aneurin Bevan Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 3 – Cwm Tâf Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 4 – Cardiff and Vale University Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 5 – Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board

          HSC(4)-10-12 paper 6 – Hywel Dda Health Board

2.1 Ms Shillabeer responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 Ms Shillabeer agreed to provide further information on how the different commissioning patterns used by local authorities impact upon health boards.

HSC(4)-07-12 paper 3

Rebecca Woolley, Action on Hearing Loss Cymru

Ansley Workman, RNIB Cymru

Sue Brown, Sense Cymru

BREAK (11.10 – 11.20)

HSC(4)-07-12 paper 5

3.2 The Committee noted the paper from Prof John Bolton.

Roz Williamson, Carers Wales

Dr Rosie Tope, Wales Committee of Carers Wales

HSC(4)-07-12 paper 1

Nancy Davies, Pensioners’ Forum Wales

Haydn Evans, Pensioners’ Forum Wales

HSC(4)-07-12 paper 2

Phil Vining, Age Concern Cardiff and Vale

Linda Thomas, Age Concern Cardiff and Vale

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 The Committee requested a copy of the report by the Social Care Institute for Excellence on the quality of care home provision provided by different sectors.

2.3 The Committee requested a copy of the report by the Commission on Improving Dignity in Care for Older People on Delivering Dignity.

Prof John Bolton, Institute of Public Care, Oxford Brookes University

          HSC(4)-06-12 paper 4

Julie Jones, Chief Executive, Social Care Institute for Excellence

          HSC(4)-06-12 paper 5

4.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

4.2 Prof. Bolton agreed to provide a copy of research undertaken by Prof Andrew Kerslake (Institute of Public Care) into the health triggers that can lead to an individual entering residential care.

4.3 The Committee requested a copy of a report by the Association of Directors of Social Services in England on a financial analysis of Four Seasons Health Care.

Ruth Marks, Older People’s Commissioner for Wales

Sarah Stone, Deputy Older People's Commissioner for Wales

Alun Thomas, Head of Review, Examination and Policy

          HSC(4)-06-12 paper 1

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

2.2 The Commissioner agreed to share with the Committee research on whistle-blowing when available.

2.3 The Committee agreed to write to the UK Government to ask about progress on encouraging a UN convention on the rights of older persons.

John Moore, My Home Life Cymru

          HSC(4)-06-12 paper 2

Tom Owen, Director, My Home Life

          HSC(4)-06-12 paper 3

Break 10.55 – 11.05

3.1 The witnesses responded to questions from members of the Committee on residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-05-12 paper 2a – consultation response

HSC(4)-05-12 paper 2b – additional information

Jean-Pierre Girard, specialist in the development and management of co-operative, non-profit and mutual organisations (nominated by the Wales Progressive Co-operators)

4.1 Jean-Pierre Girard responded to questions from members of the Committee on the co-operative model for home care for older people in Quebec.

HSC(4)-04-12 paper 2

3.1 The Committee discussed its external engagement for the inquiry into residential care for older people.

3.2 The Committee agreed the proposed engagement activity proposed and agreed to appoint Age Cymru and Crossroads Care to work collaboratively to facilitate this work.

HSC(4)-01-13 paper 4

HSC(4)-01-12 paper 1a – Inquiry timetable

HSC(4)-01-12 paper 1b – Appointment of expert adviser

2.1 The Committee discussed the timetable for its inquiry into residential care for older people and the appointment of an expert adviser.

2.2 The Committee agreed the outline timetable and the allocation of key themes to individual Members. The Committee did not agree the proposed role specification for an expert adviser and, as such, was unable to nominate a preferred candidate. Members agreed to delegate further work on the role specification and possible candidates to the Chair.

HSC(4)-13-11 paper 2

3.1 The Committee agreed the work plan for its inquiry into residential care for older people.

HSC(4)-08-11 paper 1

2.1 The Committee agreed amendments to the draft terms of reference and that the consultation would be issued on 24 October.

HSC(4)-04-11 paper 3

4.1 The Committee agreed that the balance of provision between private and public care homes and the pathway to residential care should be included in the terms of reference for the inquiry into residential care for older people.

4.2 The Committee agreed that the draft terms of reference for the inquiry should be circulated to stakeholders and that a period of 2 weeks should be allowed for them to comment.

HSC(4)-03-11 paper 4

5.1 The Committee agreed that it would hold an inquiry into residential care for older people and that it would consider draft terms of reference at its meeting on 28 September.

5.2 The Committee agreed that the draft terms of reference for the inquiry should be circulated to stakeholders and that a period of 2 weeks should be allowed for them to comment.