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Cofnod y Trafodion
The Record of Proceedings

Y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus

The Public Accounts Committee

5/6/2017

 

 

Agenda’r Cyfarfod
Meeting Agenda

Trawsgrifiadau’r Pwyllgor
Committee Transcripts


Cynnwys
Contents

4....... Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau
Introductions, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of Interest

 

4....... Papurau i’w Nodi
Papers to Note

 

5....... Arlwyo a Maeth Cleifion mewn Ysbytai: Ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor
Hospital Catering and Patient Nutrition: Welsh Government’s Response to the Committee’s Report

 

6....... Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i Benderfynu Gwahardd y Cyhoedd o’r Cyfarfod
Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to Resolve to Exclude the Public from the Meeting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Lle mae cyfranwyr wedi darparu cywiriadau i’w tystiolaeth, nodir y rheini yn y trawsgrifiad.

 

The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. Where contributors have supplied corrections to their evidence, these are noted in the transcript.

 


 

Aelodau’r pwyllgor yn bresennol
Committee members in attendance

 

Mohammad Asghar
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Ceidwadwyr Cymreig
Welsh Conservatives

 

Neil Hamilton
Bywgraffiad|Biography

UKIP Cymru
UKIP Wales

 

Mike Hedges
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Llafur
Labour

 

Neil McEvoy
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Plaid Cymru
The Party of Wales

 

Rhianon Passmore
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Llafur
Labour

 

Nick Ramsay
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Ceidwadwyr Cymreig (Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor)
Welsh Conservatives (Committee Chair)

 

Joyce Watson
Bywgraffiad|Biography

Llafur (yn dirprwyo ar ran Lee Waters)
Labour (substitute for Lee Waters)

 

Eraill yn bresennol
Others in attendance

 

Matthew Mortlock

Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru

Wales Audit Office

 

Huw Vaughan Thomas

Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru

Auditor General for Wales

 

Swyddogion Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru yn bresennol
National Assembly for Wales officials in attendance

 

Fay Bowen

Clerc
Clerk

 

Claire Griffiths

 

Dirprwy Glerc
Deputy Clerk

 

Katie Wyatt

Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol
Legal Adviser

 

Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 14:00.
The meeting began at 14:00.

 

Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau
Introductions, Apologies, Substitutions and Declarations of Interest

 

[1]          Nick Ramsay: Welcome to this afternoon’s meeting of the Public Accounts Committee. Headsets are available for translation and, as usual, sound amplification. Please can Members turn off, or turn to silent, any phones? In the event of an emergency, follow the ushers. We have received an apology from Lee Waters today and very pleased to see Joyce Watson with us. Thanks for agreeing to sub for Lee today, Joyce—that’s really helpful to the committee. Do Members have any declarations of registerable interests that they would like to make at this point in the meeting? No. Okay.

 

14:00

 

Papurau i’w Nodi
Papers to Note

 

[2]          Nick Ramsay: Item 2, papers to note, and, first of all, we need to agree the minutes from the last meeting. Happy to do that? Good.

 

[3]          The Auditor General for Wales’s report, ‘2015-16 Central Government Accounts’, published on 18 May, is the first annual report on the audits of the financial statements of central Government bodies, and it summarises the results of audit work for 2015-16, completed at the central Government bodies in Wales. I propose that the report’s findings are considered as part of the committee’s annual accounts scrutiny work in the autumn term, as the report picks up on some issues previously looked at by PAC. Are Members happy to note the report? Okay.

 

[4]          Following the evidence sessions held on 22 May regarding Natural Resources Wales’s annual report and accounts for 2015-16, which were qualified by the auditor general, Mr David Sulman sent some additional information to the committee. As this referred to NRW’s evidence, they were invited to respond as well. The committee’s draft report, which we will consider later, reflects these comments. Are Members happy to note the letters—pack pages 30-36? Good. Okay.

 

14:02

 

Arlwyo a Maeth Cleifion mewn Ysbytai: Ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor
Hospital Catering and Patient Nutrition: Welsh Government’s Response to the Committee’s Report

 

[5]          Nick Ramsay: Item 3, hospital catering and patient nutrition. The committee’s report into catering and patient nutrition was published on 20 March and made 10 recommendations for the Welsh Government, which have all been accepted, I’m pleased to say—so, we’re doing something right there. Auditor general, would you like to comment on the response we received and make any suggestions as to how you feel we may wish to proceed?

 

[6]          Mr Thomas: Chair, as you say, the Welsh Government has accepted in full the recommendations the committee made. But, the reality is that there are a couple of places in the report where I think the timescales for action could be clearer. On one of these, the Welsh Government commits itself to writing back to the committee in September, and what I’d recommend to the committee is that they accept that offer from the Government, but also ask them to clarify a couple of the points, as I’ve put in my advice to the committee.

 

[7]          Nick Ramsay: Great. Thanks, Huw. Any questions or comments to Huw—to the auditor general? Mike Hedges.

 

[8]          Mike Hedges: Just a comment, and it’s not dissimilar to ones I’ve made before. I think the Government are doing a very good job on this, and I don’t think that anybody could criticise the Government. I don’t think the health boards themselves, as boards, are doing a very good job on this—maybe criticise them. When it makes its way down to the people who are at ward level, that’s where the problem arises. And I think, really, next time the auditor general looks at this, which I’m sure will be fairly soon—recommendation 8, to actually see what’s happening with the non-executive director, the reporting back and actually taking a positive part in it. Because it’s got to be driven—you can have whatever rules you like and everybody can agree them, but if the person implementing them doesn’t, then we have a problem, which is what happens at ward level.

 

[9]          Mr Thomas: Well, certainly, given that the Welsh Government has accepted recommendation 8, we will be checking that as part of the governance procedures at health boards.

 

[10]      Nick Ramsay: Okay. Happy with that?

 

[11]      Mike Hedges: Yes.

 

[12]      Nick Ramsay: Okay. I suggest we seek a further update from the Welsh Government later, after the summer, in the autumn term. Happy with that approach? Good. Okay.

 

14:04

 

Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42 i Benderfynu Gwahardd y Cyhoedd o’r Cyfarfod
Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to Resolve to Exclude the Public from the Meeting

 

Cynnig:

 

Motion:

 

bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).

 

that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).

 

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

 

 

[13]      Nick Ramsay: Okay, item 4. I now propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee meets in private for items 5, 6, 7 and 8 of today’s meeting.

 

[14]      Hapus?

 

Happy?

 

[15]      Mike Hedges: Hapus. Hapus iawn.

 

Mike Hedges: Happy. Very happy.

 

[16]      Nick Ramsay: Hapus iawn.

 

Nick Ramsay: Very happy.

 

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

 

 

Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 14:05.
The public part of the meeting ended at 14:05.