Concise Minutes - Health and Social Care Committee


Meeting Venue:

Committee Room 3 - Senedd

Meeting date: Wednesday,

25 November 2015

Meeting time: 09.00 - 12.12
This meeting can be viewed
on Senedd TV at:
http://senedd.tv/en/3321


Attendance

Category

Names

Assembly Members:

David Rees AM (Chair)

Peter Black AM (In place of Kirsty Williams AM for items 1 and 2)

Alun Davies AM

John Griffiths AM

Altaf Hussain AM

Elin Jones AM

Darren Millar AM

Lynne Neagle AM

Gwyn R Price AM

Lindsay Whittle AM

Kirsty Williams AM (for items 3 and 4)

Witnesses:

Kirsty Williams AM, Member in charge of the Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill

Philippa Watkins, National Assembly for Wales Commission

Lisa Salkeld, National Assembly for Wales Commission

Mark Drakeford AM, The Minister for Health and Social Services

Helen Whyley, Welsh Government

Rhian Williams, Welsh Government

Committee Staff:

Llinos Madeley (Clerk)

Gareth Howells (Legal Adviser)

Catherine Hunt (Second Clerk)

Sian Giddins (Deputy Clerk)

Gwyn Griffiths (Legal Adviser)

Amy Clifton (Researcher)

Philippa Watkins (Researcher)

 

<AI1>

Transcript

View the meeting transcript (PDF 414KB) View as HTML (356KB)

</AI1>

<AI2>

1       Introductions, apologies and substitutions

1.1 There were no apologies.

1.2 For items relating to the Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill, Peter Black substituted for Kirsty Williams.

</AI2>

<AI3>

2       Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill: Stage 2 - consideration of amendments

2.1 Lynne Neagle declared the following relevant interest under Standing Order 17.24A:

•        She has a close family member currently living on a mental health inpatient ward

 

2.2 In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee disposed of the following amendments to the Bill:

 

Amendment 28 (Mark Drakeford)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Alun Davies

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

John Griffiths

Darren Millar

 

Elin Jones

 

 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

 

Amendment 28 was agreed.

 

Amendment 29A (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29A was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29B (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29B was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29C (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Darren Millar

Alun Davies

 

 

John Griffiths

 

 

Elin Jones

 

 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

Amendment 29C was not agreed

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29D (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29D was not agreed.

 

Amendments 29E, 29F, 29G, 29H and 29I (Darren Millar) were disposed of en bloc.

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendments 29E, 29F, 29G, 29H and 29I were not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29J (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29J was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29Z (Elin Jones)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29Z was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29AA (Elin Jones)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29AA was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29AB (Elin Jones)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29AB was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29AC (Elin Jones)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29AC was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29AD (Elin Jones)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29AD was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendments 29K, 29L, 29M, 29N and 29O (Darren Millar) were disposed of en bloc.

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendments 29K, 29L, 29M, 29N and 29O were not agreed.

 

Amendment 29P (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29P was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29Q (Darren Millar) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29R (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29R was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29S (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29S was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29T (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29T was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29U (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29U was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29V (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29V was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29W (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Darren Millar

Alun Davies

 

 

John Griffiths

 

 

Elin Jones

 

 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

Amendment 29W was not agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29X (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29X was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29Y (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Elin Jones

Alun Davies

 

Darren Millar

John Griffiths

 

Lindsay Whittle 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

Amendment 29Y was not agreed.

 

Amendment 29AE (Elin Jones) was not moved.

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Alun Davies

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

John Griffiths

Elin Jones

 

Lynne Neagle

Darren Millar

 

Gwyn R Price 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

David Rees

 

 

Amendment 29 was agreed.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 1 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 20 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 2 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 21 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 3 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 4 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 22 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 23 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 24 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 5 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 6 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 7 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 8 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 9 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 10 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 11 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 12 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 25 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

As amendment 29W (Darren Millar) was not agreed, amendment 30A (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29X (Darren Millar) was not agreed, amendment 30B (Darren Millar) fell.

 

Amendment 30 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 13 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 14 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

Amendment 31A (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Peter Black

Alun Davies

 

Altaf Hussain

John Griffiths

 

Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

 

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

 

As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 31A was not agreed.

 

Amendment 31 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 15 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

As amendment 29 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 16 (Darren Millar) fell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 36 (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Darren Millar

Alun Davies

 

 

John Griffiths

 

 

Elin Jones

 

 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

Amendment 36 was not agreed.

 

Amendment 37 (Darren Millar)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

 

Darren Millar

Alun Davies

 

 

John Griffiths

 

 

Elin Jones

 

 

Lynne Neagle

 

 

Gwyn R Price 

 

 

David Rees

 

 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

Amendment 37 was not agreed.

 

 

 

Amendment 32 (Mark Drakeford)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Alun Davies

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

John Griffiths

 Elin Jones

 

Lynne Neagle

Darren Millar

 

Gwyn R Price 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

David Rees

 

 

Amendment 32 was agreed.

 

As amendment 32 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendments 17 and 18 (Darren Millar) fell. 

 

Amendment 19 (Darren Millar) was not moved.

 

Amendment 33 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

Amendment 34 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amendment 35 (Mark Drakeford)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Alun Davies

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

John Griffiths

 Elin Jones

 

Lynne Neagle

Darren Millar

 

Gwyn R Price 

Lindsay Whittle 

 

David Rees

 

 

Amendment 35 was agreed.

 

Amendment 27 (Mark Drakeford)

In favour

Against

Abstain

Alun Davies

Altaf Hussain

Peter Black

John Griffiths

 Elin Jones

Lynne Neagle

Darren Millar

Gwyn R Price 

Lindsay Whittle 

David Rees

Amendment 27 was agreed.

 

Amendment 38 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

 

As amendment 38 (Mark Drakeford) was agreed, amendment 39 (Elin Jones) fell.

 

2.3 All sections of the Bill were deemed agreed by the Committee.

</AI3>

<AI4>

3       Motion under Standing Order 17.42(vi) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting

3.1 The motion was agreed.

</AI4>

<AI5>

4       Public Health (Wales) Bill: consideration of the draft report

4.1 The Committee considered and agreed, subject to minor changes, the Stage 1 draft report on the Public Health (Wales) Bill.

4.2 The Committee agreed to publish its Stage 1 report on the general principles of the Public Health (Wales) Bill on Monday 30 November. Although this is later than the deadline of 27 November agreed by the Business Committee, the Health and Social Care Committee noted that this decision will not have an impact on:

·         the timing of the Stage 1 Plenary debate, currently scheduled for 8 December;

·         the deadlines for subsequent amending stages, should the general principles of the Bill be agreed by the Assembly.

</AI5>

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