Health and Social Care Committee

 

Meeting Venue:

Committee Room 3 - Senedd

 

 

 

Meeting date:

Thursday, 5 March 2015

 

 

 

Meeting time:

09.01 - 15.36

 

 

 

This meeting can be viewed on Senedd TV at:
http://senedd.tv/en/2671

 

 

Concise Minutes:

 

 

 

Assembly Members:

 

David Rees AM (Chair)

Alun Davies AM

John Griffiths AM

Elin Jones AM

Darren Millar AM

Lynne Neagle AM

Gwyn R Price AM

Lindsay Whittle AM

Peter Black AM (In place of Kirsty Williams AM for items 1 to 5)

 

 

 

 

 

Witnesses:

 

Dr Jean White, Chief Nursing Officer

Fiona Davies, Welsh Government

Helen Whyley, Welsh Government

Mark Drakeford AM, the Minister for Health and Social Services,

Stephen Harrhy, Chief Ambulance Services Commissioner

Professor Siobhan McClelland, Emergency Ambulance Services Committee

Mick Giannasi, Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust

Tracy Myhill, Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust

Adam Cairns, Cardiff and Vale University Health Board

Alison Williams, Cwm Taf University Health Board

 

 

 

 

 

Committee Staff:

 

Llinos Madeley (Clerk)

Helen Finlayson (Second Clerk)

Sian Giddins (Deputy Clerk)

Rhys Morgan (Deputy Clerk)

Enrico Carpanini (Legal Adviser)

Stephen Boyce (Researcher)

Amy Clifton (Researcher)

Philippa Watkins (Researcher)

Gwyn Griffiths (Legal Adviser)

Sian Thomas (Researcher)

 

 

 

<AI1>

Transcript

View the meeting transcript.

 

</AI1>

<AI2>

1    Introductions, apologies and substitutions

1.1 Apologies were received from Janet Finch-Saunders.

1.2 Apologies were received from Kirsty Williams. For items relating to the Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill, Peter Black substituted for Kirsty Williams.

1.3 The Chair noted the Committee’s best wishes to Kirsty Williams, who was unable to attend the meeting due to illness. The Committee agreed to identify an alternative date for Kirsty Williams to give evidence as Member in charge of the Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill.

 

</AI2>

<AI3>

2    Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill: evidence session 12

2.1 The witnesses responded to questions from Members.

 

</AI3>

<AI4>

3    Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill: evidence session 13

3.1 The witnesses responded to questions from Members.

3.2 The Minister agreed to provide the Committee with a note on his powers of direction under Section 12 of the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006.

 

</AI4>

<AI5>

4    Motion under Standing Orders 17.42(vi) and (ix) to resolve to exclude the public from  items 5, 6 and 11 of the meeting

4.1 The motion was agreed.

 

</AI5>

<AI6>

5    Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill: consideration of evidence received

5.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

5.2 The Committee agreed to seek additional information from local health boards about the arrangements they have in place to manage care they commission from the independent sector and/or from other administrations (e.g. NHS England), particularly:

·         whether standard contracts are used for such arrangements;

·         how health boards monitor compliance with the contracts/agreements that are in place for the delivery of care they have commissioned.

5.3 The Committee agreed to seek additional information from the Welsh Independent Healthcare Association about:

·         its comment in written evidence that “it is important that should the Bill be extended that it will include all of the Independent Sector not just NHS funded care within the Sector”; and

·         whether the industry adheres to any staffing ratios at the moment and, if so, what those ratios are, to what extent compliance is monitored and by whom, and what the rates of compliance are.

 

</AI6>

<AI7>

6    The Committee's forward work programme

6.1 The Members discussed the forward work programme.

6.2 The Committee agreed to schedule further evidence sessions on the Safe Nurse Staffing (Wales) Bill, including a session with Kirsty Williams the Member in charge of the Bill, on 19 March 2015.

6.3 The Committee agreed its approach to gathering oral evidence in relation to Stage 1 scrutiny of the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Bill.

6.4 The Committee noted the outline forward work programme from April to July 2015, subject to further discussion of a request from the Minister for Health and Social Services to defer the summer general and financial scrutiny session to later in the year.

6.5 Members noted the outline work programme for the remainder of the Fourth Assembly, and agreed to defer a decision on their previously identified priorities.

 

</AI7>

<AI8>

7    Inquiry into the performance of Ambulance Services in Wales: evidence session 1

7.1 The witnesses responded to questions from Members.

7.2 The witnesses agreed to provide the Committee with the following:

·         a copy of the  interim agreement with the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust for 2014-15;

·         an indication of the timescales for the Commissioning Quality and Delivery Framework and, once finalised, a copy of the Framework.

 

</AI8>

<AI9>

8    Inquiry into the performance of Ambulance Services in Wales: evidence session 2

8.1 The witnesses responded to questions from Members.

8.2 The witnesses agreed to provide the Committee with:

·         details of the pilot schemes underway across Wales to improve ambulance services;

·         the number of Category A emergency calls made in 2012, 2013 and 2014, the number of incidents to which those calls relate, the number which resulted in an emergency response arriving at the scene, and the number which resulted in an emergency response arriving at the scene within eight minutes;

·         the dates on which the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust was consulted or involved in the decision to suspend consultant-led maternity care at Glan Clwyd Hospital; and

·         a copy of the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust improvement action plan for the next year.

 

</AI9>

<AI10>

9    Inquiry into the performance of Ambulance Services in Wales: evidence session 3

9.1 The witnesses responded to questions from Members.

9.2 The witnesses agreed to provide the Committee with:

·         details for the last month (February 2015) of the number of ambulances that arrived at each Accident and Emergency department in the Cardiff and Vale University Health Board and Cwm Taf University Health Board areas, and, if possible, the ambulance station at which each of those ambulances is based;

·         details of the numbers of patients experiencing handover delays in the Cardiff and Vale University Health Board area;

·         details of the actions that Cardiff and Vale University Health Board and Cwm Taf University Health Board are taking to reduce patient handover delays, the improvements that are expected to be achieved, and the associated timescales; and

·         a copy of the report of the investigation into unscheduled care experiences at each local health board, anticipated to be published in April 2015. 

 

</AI10>

<AI11>

10        Papers to note

 

</AI11>

<AI12>

10.1      Correspondence from the Petitions Committee: P-04-625 Support for Safe Nursing Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill

10.1a The Committee noted the correspondence.

 

</AI12>

<AI13>

10.2      Safe Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Bill: Summary of evidence received from the Royal College of Nursing campaign

10.2a The Committee noted the summary of evidence.

 

</AI13>

<AI14>

11        Inquiry into the performance of Ambulance Services in Wales: consideration of evidence received

11.1 The Committee considered the evidence received and agreed to write to the Deputy Minister for Health.

 

</AI14>

<TRAILER_SECTION>

</TRAILER_SECTION>

<LAYOUT_SECTION>

FIELD_SUMMARY

 

</LAYOUT_SECTION>

<TITLE_ONLY_LAYOUT_SECTION>

 

</TITLE_ONLY_LAYOUT_SECTION>

<HEADING_LAYOUT_SECTION>

FIELD_TITLE

</HEADING_LAYOUT_SECTION>

<TITLED_COMMENT_LAYOUT_SECTION>

FIELD_TITLE

FIELD_SUMMARY

</TITLED_COMMENT_LAYOUT_SECTION>

<COMMENT_LAYOUT_SECTION>

FIELD_SUMMARY

 

</COMMENT_LAYOUT_SECTION>

 

<SUBNUMBER_LAYOUT_SECTION>

 

FIELD_SUMMARY

</SUBNUMBER_LAYOUT_SECTION>

 

<TITLE_ONLY_SUBNUMBER_LAYOUT_SECTION>

 

</TITLE_ONLY_SUBNUMBER_LAYOUT_SECTION>