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( June 2001 )Tj
-38.57523 -1.2 Td
(where Members could have access to the report. Also, the Minister was du\
e to give a statement to )Tj
T*
(Plenary on 26)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 89.37054 307.54182 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 98.03201 304.21848 Tm
( June with regards to this report and would be willing to defer this if \
the Committee )Tj
-6.8372 -1.2 Td
(wished her to do so. The Minister assured the Committee that even if thi\
s statement to Plenary went )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(ahead, then the Executive response to this investigation would not be af\
fected. Pauline Jarman raised )Tj
T*
(the issue of the Committee\222s commitment to the Partnership agreement.\
The Minister answered that )Tj
T*
(the Committee had to wait until the outcome of the recommendations for t\
his matter to be addressed.)Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
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/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 208.70938 Tm
(The Chair asked if the Committee was content to defer the Group\222s pre\
sentation to the Committee until )Tj
0 -1.30484 TD
(11)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 23.70851 195.0936 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 32.36998 191.77025 Tm
( July. The Committee agreed to follow the Chair\222s lead on this matter\
. The Chair also asked if the )Tj
-1.77921 -1.2 Td
(Committee wished for the Minister to defer her statement to Plenary on t\
he issue of Student Hardship. )Tj
T*
(The Committee responded that they were content for the Minister\222s sta\
tement to Plenary on 26)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 551.87378 162.57628 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 560.53525 159.25293 Tm
( June )Tj
-42.46422 -1.2 Td
(to remain as previously arranged.)Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
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/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 110.47838 Tm
(Corus \226 Education, Training and Employment Measures: )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
(The Chair informed the Committee that )Tj
0 -1.22908 TD
(the Economic Development Committee had requested that a joint meeting be\
held to scrutinise the )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(relevant Ministers on the practicalities of the \24366 million package o\
f measures recently announced by )Tj
T*
(the First Minister . Taking into account the postponement of Professor R\
ees\222s presentation to the )Tj
0 -1.30484 TD
(Committee on 23)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 108.11629 49.75055 Tm
(rd)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 117.34895 46.42722 Tm
( May, a joint session could be held during the first part of this meetin\
g. The )Tj
ET
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(Committee was invited to comment on this proposal. The Committee agreed \
that this joint session )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(should take place.)Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
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/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 708.00623 Tm
(Notification under Standing Order 5.6:)Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
( The Chair stated that the Deputy Presiding Officer had )Tj
0 -1.22908 TD
(referred the)Tj
/TT2 1 Tf
( \221Inspection of Education and Training \(Wales\) Regulations 2001\222\
)Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
( to the Committee for )Tj
0 -1.3063 TD
(consideration, with a remit to report back within three weeks \(by 29)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 393.10614 678.4156 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 401.76761 675.09225 Tm
( May\). The Committee agreed )Tj
-30.23422 -1.30484 Td
(that this item be placed on the agenda for the next Committee meeting: 1\
7)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 435.73843 661.47646 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 444.3999 658.15311 Tm
( May. The relevant papers )Tj
-33.51822 -1.30484 Td
(would be distributed to Committee Members on Friday 11)Tj
10.38545 0 0 10.38545 338.98494 644.53732 Tm
(th)Tj
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 347.64641 641.21397 Tm
( May.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 608.01761 Tm
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT3 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 575.17314 Tm
(Item One: Report by the Assembly Minister )Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
BT
/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 542.00238 Tm
(Paper: ELL 08-01\(p.1\))Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 508.42853 Tm
(1.1 The Minister submitted her monthly report to the Committee, which in\
cluded items that had been )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(requested by Members. The report also included an Analysis of School Fun\
ding in Wales for 2000-01 )Tj
T*
(and comparative information for England. The work had been carried out b\
y the Statistical Directorate )Tj
T*
(of the National Assembly in consultation with the Welsh Local Government\
Association \(WLGA\). )Tj
T*
(Stuart Neil and Robert Hays from the Statistics Directorate gave a prese\
ntation and a copy is attached )Tj
T*
(at Annexes 1-4. Stuart Neil commented that the information had come from\
Local Education )Tj
T*
(Authorities \(LEAs\) rather than from individual schools. Peter Tyndall \
\(Head of Education, Training and )Tj
T*
(Cultural Affairs at the WLGA\) was invited to participate in the discuss\
ion. The Minister commented that )Tj
0 -1.20001 TD
(the report showed that funding of schools in Wales was comparable with f\
unding in England.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 350.6067 Tm
(1.2 The following issues were raised in discussion: )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 317.41034 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 317.41034 Tm
(Members raised the issue of whether any analysis had been carried out at\
school level. Stuart )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(Neil responded that as of yet, there had been no work carried out on lin\
king spend figures to )Tj
T*
(achievement figures at school level. There were some difficulties in thi\
s as delegated school )Tj
T*
(funding differed between authorities in terms of the extent of services \
that were delegated. Only )Tj
T*
(if overall per pupil funding were used was it possible to capture the to\
tality of per pupil provision )Tj
T*
(and ensure like for like comparison. )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 223.94125 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 223.94125 Tm
(There was some concerns about the level of variation in spend across Wal\
es. It was felt there )Tj
T*
(was a need to equalise \221life-chances\222 across Wales and address the\
marked differentiation in )Tj
T*
(spend/achievement between Key Stage1 and Key Stage 4. Peter Tyndall resp\
onded that the )Tj
T*
(WLGA had done more work on social deprivation and this work would be fed\
into the working )Tj
T*
(group of the Partnership Council looking at narrowing the gap in perform\
ance between schools )Tj
T*
(for consideration. )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 130.47215 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 130.47215 Tm
(Members raised the public perception that LEAs received funding for scho\
ols but did not pass it )Tj
T*
(onto the schools. They asked what proportion of school funding was held \
by LEAs? Stuart Neil )Tj
T*
(informed the Committee that the delegation figures ranged between 75% an\
d 85% of the overall )Tj
T*
(budget. Rural areas, with lots of small schools and high transport cost \
had low delegation rates )Tj
T*
(and urban areas, where economies of scale were possible, generally had h\
igh delegation rates.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 52.58125 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
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/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 52.58125 Tm
(The Chair raised the issue of whether Wales received a lower proportion \
of funding for schools/)Tj
T*
(education in comparison with England and whether this analysis of school\
funding proved this. )Tj
ET
EMC
Q
endstream
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(Stuart Neil stated that the budgets set for schools were comparable with\
those in England \226 in )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(England and Wales terms, Wales was a high-spending non-metropolitan area\
. The allegation )Tj
T*
(that Wales provided less funding for schools education than did England \
was not supported by )Tj
T*
(these statistics.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 693.62125 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
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12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 693.62125 Tm
(Members felt that it would have been useful to have the projected spend \
figures for the next )Tj
T*
(three years included in the analysis. Members felt there was a case for \
a better match between )Tj
T*
(the distribution of GEST funding and need, in terms of levels of depriva\
tion.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 646.8867 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 646.8867 Tm
(Members were interested to know what proportion of central services was \
taken up by transport, )Tj
T*
(particularly in rural areas. Stuart Neil answered that this varied. From\
memory, he thought that )Tj
T*
(Cardiff had the lowest proportionate spend at 2% and Powys the highest a\
t 8%.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 600.15216 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 600.15216 Tm
(The Minister commented that it would be useful if the analysis could pro\
vide information on the )Tj
T*
(proportion of its overall budget that each authority devoted to educatio\
n \226 in diagrammatic form. )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 568.99579 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 568.99579 Tm
(The Minister concluded that it was obvious from the report that schools \
in Wales were )Tj
T*
(comparably funded with those in England. However, she was concerned by t\
he conclusions of )Tj
T*
(the recent Audit Commission work that many local authorities had not rev\
iewed their formulae )Tj
T*
(for distribution of resources to schools, to ensure that they continued \
to reflect need. The )Tj
T*
(Minister stated that she would pursue this matter with the Audit Commiss\
ion and the WLGA.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 491.10489 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 491.10489 Tm
(The Minister invited Members to provide her with any written comments on\
this matter.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 457.90852 Tm
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 425.06406 Tm
(Item Two: Policy Review \226 Higher Education \226 Key Theme Presentatio\
n \226 Governance \226 by )Tj
T*
(Professor Mike Shattock and Professor Keith Robbins on behalf of HEW.)Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
BT
/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 376.28951 Tm
(Paper: ELL 08-01\(p.2\) and \(p.3\))Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
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/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 342.74126 Tm
(2.1 Professor Mike Shattock, Visiting Lecturer at the University of Lond\
on \(Centre for Higher Education )Tj
T*
(Studies,\) referred to his paper. Professor Keith Robbins, on behalf of \
HEW, also made reference to his )Tj
T*
(paper.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 278.38852 Tm
(2.2 The following issues were raised in discussion: )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 245.19215 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 245.19215 Tm
(Members were interested to know what Professor Shattock\222s preference \
for the components for )Tj
T*
(a governing body was. Professor Shattock replied that he was in favour o\
f the pre-92 university )Tj
T*
(structure of having the academic component of a governing body elected b\
y the senate. He )Tj
T*
(favoured a governing body split between two-thirds lay and one-third aca\
demic. )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 182.87943 Tm
(l)Tj
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( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 182.87943 Tm
(Members asked Professor Shattock to comment on whether he thought a fede\
ral structure )Tj
T*
(would best suit Wales and if so, how formal or loose should this structu\
re be? Professor )Tj
T*
(Shattock argued that institutions should consider their own futures/nich\
es and structures that )Tj
T*
(stood between institutions and funding agencies were not favourable. Fed\
eral universities, such )Tj
T*
(as those in London had worked well in the past but at present, the feder\
al structure would slow )Tj
T*
(things down .)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 89.41034 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 89.41034 Tm
(The Chair referred to Professor Shattock\222s paper and asked him to com\
ment on his preference )Tj
T*
(to strengthen the role of the Funding Council. Professor Shattock respon\
ded the Funding )Tj
T*
(Council in Wales already had considerable power within the HE sector in \
Wales. Due to the )Tj
T*
(varying sizes and missions of institutions in Wales, there should be som\
e policy constructed in )Tj
ET
EMC
Q
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(part through an intermediatery body, not just through government. Howeve\
r, this should not )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(weaken the autonomy of individual institutions. A large-scale change was\
not necessary but the )Tj
T*
(Funding Council should be given a more upfront role with some reserve po\
wers for funding )Tj
T*
(missions.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 694.46805 Tm
(Members were interested to know how best could the HE sector balance the\
requirements to )Tj
T*
(account for public money and for maintaining a consistent and high level\
quality of provision )Tj
T*
(without becoming over-burdened with bureaucracy. Professor Shattock repl\
ied that less )Tj
T*
(bureaucracy would attain those requirements. Institutions had an inheren\
t interest in good )Tj
T*
(quality provision because that attracted students and financial support.\
Good governance )Tj
T*
(implied strong lay members working closely with academic members)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
ET
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/LBody <>BDC
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/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 600.99896 Tm
(Members asked Professor Shattock to comment on how the need for accounta\
bility could be )Tj
T*
(fulfilled whilst ensuring Higher Education Institutions \(HEIs\) became \
more innovative and )Tj
T*
(entrepreneurial, which could inevitably necessitate taking risks. Profes\
sor Shattock informed the )Tj
T*
(Committee that there was no contradiction between taking risks and gener\
ating money. More )Tj
T*
(money would increase the quality of output/provision in HEIs .)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 523.10805 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 523.10805 Tm
(The issue of whether the position of the constituent institutions, namel\
y Swansea, Aberystwyth )Tj
T*
(and Bangor universities in the University of Wales was seen to be ambigu\
ous across the UK. )Tj
T*
(Professor Shattock assured the Committee that these institutions had hig\
h reputations )Tj
T*
(internationally. Besides, these institutions attracted students from Eng\
land.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 460.79532 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 460.79532 Tm
(The Minister asked Professor Shattock to comment on if the Funding Counc\
il was given a more )Tj
T*
(supportive role in Wales, akin to that in the USA, how he envisaged thes\
e proposals being )Tj
T*
(carried out. Professor Shattock had attended several US co-ordination co\
mmittees and gave the )Tj
T*
(example that in New York, several institutions had intended to form a me\
dical/health faculty. )Tj
T*
(The institutions viewed as to the needs of the state/New York, not on th\
e basis of competition )Tj
T*
(and then recommendations were made by the co-ordinating body with regard\
s to funding. A )Tj
T*
(funding council should support institutions and enhance them and not enc\
ourage competition.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 351.74805 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 351.74805 Tm
(The Minister asked for Professor Shattock\222s response to how students \
could be assured that )Tj
T*
(any complaints that they may have made, would be processed accordingly a\
nd given a fair )Tj
T*
(hearing. Professor Shattock stated that he preferred the Visitor system \
and not the U-UK\222s )Tj
T*
(suggestion of an ombudsman. An ombudsman did not have the power to bring\
proceedings to )Tj
T*
(an end, as complaints could reach the courts. The Visitor did. New unive\
rsities needed new )Tj
T*
(legislation to have Visitors \(as in the Pre-92 system\).)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 258.27896 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 258.27896 Tm
(Members asked Professor Robbins to comment on what the sector felt was t\
he future role of the )Tj
T*
(University of Wales Registry, particularly in relation to reducing the b\
urden of accountability and )Tj
T*
(especially within a "one country, one university" model. Professor Robbi\
ns said that the staffing )Tj
T*
(of the Registry had been reduced from former levels, and a balance of ro\
les agreed between the )Tj
T*
(Registry and the constituent institutions. He informed the Committee tha\
t more collaboration )Tj
T*
(was required on a pan-Wales basis, including collaboration on service pr\
ovision. Before this )Tj
T*
(collaboration could take place, a great deal of consultation would be re\
quisite. The University of )Tj
T*
(Wales Registry could not be the provider for everything.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 133.6535 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 133.6535 Tm
(The Chair asked Professor Robbins to comment on Professor Shattock\222s \
ideas to give more )Tj
T*
(power to the Funding Council and take some of the functions away from un\
iversities, yet give )Tj
T*
(them a new role. Would these ideas work together? Professor Robbins resp\
onded to the Chair )Tj
T*
(and said that personally, he believed these ideas were consistent and wo\
rked together. )Tj
T*
(However, universities should not have to give up their autonomy and inde\
pendence \226 this had )Tj
T*
(been exercised before in the University of Wales. In terms of collaborat\
ion, universities should )Tj
T*
(seek to work out aspects in partnership with the Funding Council. There \
should be dialogue )Tj
ET
EMC
Q
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(between these parties for their mutual benefit.)Tj
ET
EMC
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
ET
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/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 741.20259 Tm
(The Chair also asked Professor Shattock if he envisaged small institutio\
ns surviving in a niche )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(market and the Funding Council should ensure that these small institutio\
ns built on their specific )Tj
T*
(strengths and build on existing niches. Professor Shattock agreed that h\
e would like to see the )Tj
T*
(Funding Council exacting that role and encouraging a situation where the\
re exists an )Tj
T*
(intervening bureaucracy that could lead to compromise. As for smaller si\
zed institutions, they )Tj
T*
(might need assistance to view or indeed change markets. HEIs need suppor\
t to maintain )Tj
T*
(themselves.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 632.15532 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 632.15532 Tm
(Members were concerned to know what the correct balance was between enco\
uraging )Tj
T*
(autonomy for institutions and the need to provide a positive response to\
the Assembly\222s agenda. )Tj
T*
(Professor Robbins responded that there had to be constant dialogue betwe\
en the Assembly and )Tj
T*
(the HE sector in Wales.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 552.57631 Tm
(Item Three: Policy Review \226 Higher Education \226 Key Theme Presentat\
ion \226 Research \226 by Dr )Tj
T*
(John Taylor and Professor Sir Brian Smith, on behalf of HEW.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 503.82736 Tm
(Paper: ELL 08-01\(p.4\) and \(p.5\))Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 470.25349 Tm
(3.1 Dr John Taylor, Director General of the Research Councils spoke from\
his paper. Professor Brian )Tj
T*
(Smith, also spoke from his paper and handed out a supplementary paper at\
the meeting to Members. )Tj
T*
(This can be viewed at Annex 5.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 405.90077 Tm
(3.2 The following points were raised in discussion: )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 372.70441 Tm
(The Minister commented that some institutions in Wales already competed \
at international )Tj
T*
(standards through the Research Assessment Exercise \(RAE\) but still wer\
e not receiving funding )Tj
T*
(from Research Councils. How could Wales do better in this sense? Dr Tayl\
or stated that )Tj
T*
(applications for research funding were high and the cost of actual resea\
rch was getting more )Tj
T*
(expensive. There was a focus on areas of critical mass, particularly on \
facilities/infrastructures. )Tj
T*
(Co-operation and collaboration were needed between departments/instituti\
ons. There should be )Tj
T*
(less micro-management of institutions and more strategic dialogue.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 263.65714 Tm
(The Minister also asked if Wales would attract more external research fu\
nding by having one or )Tj
T*
(two larger, research-led institutions. Dr Taylor said that would not gua\
rantee funding or )Tj
T*
(succesful research. Institutions had to identify areas of talent and imp\
ortance. Individuals were )Tj
T*
(important: institutions had to look at what environments world-class peo\
ple were attracted to. )Tj
T*
(The Wilson Trust had been formulated to bring the talented back to the U\
K.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
/T1_0 1 Tf
6.49091 0 0 6.49091 33.11569 185.76624 Tm
(l)Tj
/T1_1 1 Tf
( )Tj
ET
EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 185.76624 Tm
(The Chair raised the issue of how Wales, with its small, dispersed insti\
tutions could gain a )Tj
T*
(developed infrastructure and critical mass; were centres of excellence a\
good idea? Dr Taylor )Tj
T*
(asserted that this question had to be asked in the context of research d\
iscipline. For example, in )Tj
T*
(the last spending review \226 forty universities from the UK had joined \
the European Southern )Tj
T*
(Observatory on the ALMA project. Similar examples of collaboration could\
be cited in particle )Tj
T*
(physics ; such international collaboration must occur if institutions wa\
nt to facilitate research, )Tj
T*
(using very expensive capital facilities but was not necessary in all cas\
es.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
BT
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
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EMC
/LBody <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 76.71896 Tm
(Members were interested to know how e-working/learning could affect worl\
d-class research: )Tj
T*
(would participants want face-to-face contact? Dr Taylor stated that peop\
le would always want to )Tj
T*
(meet and convene. E-learning did not impede face-to-face participation.)Tj
ET
EMC
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(There was some discussion about e-science and whether broadband technolo\
gy would benefit )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(the HEIs in Wales. Professor Smith announced that the broadband infrastr\
ucture in Wales was )Tj
T*
(very good: the grid consisted of 2.5 gigabyte lines. Dr Taylor added tha\
t the e-science )Tj
T*
(infrastructure was based beyond the Internet and World Wide Web generati\
on. The next step )Tj
T*
(was the computing and information utility. University lectures in Wales \
were well placed to )Tj
T*
(access grid-systems. )Tj
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(Members also commented that developments in e-science mirrored the devel\
opment of the )Tj
T*
(economy in Wales. Professor Smith stated that universities had to develo\
p a knowledge-based )Tj
T*
(society. Wales could not rely on old industry. HEIs should not over focu\
s on the third mission but )Tj
T*
(they must be ready for all foreseen changes.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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( )Tj
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12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 600.99896 Tm
(Members were interested to know whether there was a broadband infrastruc\
ture in North Wales. )Tj
T*
(Professor Smith answered that HEIs in North Wales had access to JANET \(\
network for )Tj
T*
(education and research community\). The physical infrastructure of broad\
band fibre optics was in )Tj
T*
(place. Although, it might be that certain institutions were not connecte\
d as it was very costly.)Tj
ET
EMC
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
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12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 538.68623 Tm
(Members asked why there was not a joint RAE submission in Physics, as wi\
thin the University )Tj
T*
(of Wales, the Faculty had been seen as an example of good practice in te\
rms of collaboration. )Tj
T*
(Professor Smith argued that there had been collaboration in terms of tra\
ining students but the )Tj
T*
(Faculty had not yet met the RAE rules on joint submissions. There was ev\
ery chance that in the )Tj
T*
(next RAE, various strengths could be co-ordinated.)Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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/T1_0 1 Tf
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(l)Tj
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( )Tj
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/LBody <>BDC
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/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 46.36363 460.79532 Tm
(The Chair commented that regionally based and nationally based research \
was important. )Tj
T*
(Wales had a great number of research units that were reaching Grade 3 in\
the RAE, so how )Tj
T*
(could these units be strengthened and developed? Dr Taylor stated that t\
he Government\222s )Tj
T*
(White Paper \(last summer\) delivered messages of more diversity with ex\
cellence between )Tj
T*
(institutions. There should be a move from just creating pure science and\
technology knowledge; )Tj
T*
(departments should be let loose in new areas and \(knowledge\) deployed \
in new technologies. )Tj
T*
(Dr Taylor stated that he had been involved in Faraday centres, which enc\
ouraged this kind of )Tj
T*
(activity.)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
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/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 318.90358 Tm
(Item Four: Progress Report and Strategic Forward Work Programme)Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT1 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 285.70721 Tm
(P)Tj
/TT2 1 Tf
(aper: ELL 08-01\(p.6\) and \(p.7\) )Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 252.13336 Tm
(4.1 In accordance with Standing Order 9.9, each subject committee shall \
maintain rolling programmes )Tj
T*
(of work covering periods of at least 12 months. Each subject committee s\
hall notify the Assembly of its )Tj
T*
(programmes, and shall report to the Assembly from time to time on its pr\
ogress in fulfilling them.. The )Tj
T*
(Committee at this session had the opportunity to comment on a draft prog\
ress report prepared by the )Tj
T*
(Clerk and also the current Forward Work Programme. )Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
BT
/TT0 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 156.62427 Tm
(4.2 The Chair asked the Committee to comment on the report and the follo\
wing comments were raised )Tj
T*
(in discussion: )Tj
ET
EMC
/Lbl <>BDC
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(The Chair suggested that \(p.2\) in the section on Policy Principles: )Tj
/TT3 1 Tf
("Putting Wales First: A )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(Partnership for the People of Wales should read the "coalition\222s fram\
ework\205". )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
(The Minister )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(pointed out that it was only the "Putting Wales First Document" that ade\
quately set out the )Tj
0 -1.20001 TD
(framework for education policy in Wales. The Clerk was asked to devise a\
suitable form of )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(words that would take account of this point.)Tj
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(The Chair also raised the issue of whether the Committee, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
("took account of the National )Tj
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(Assembly\222s statutory schemes for relations with the local authorities\
and the voluntary sector )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(and the sustainable development scheme..." \(p.2\) )Tj
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(as the Committee had not adequately )Tj
T*
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ce read, )Tj
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(" the )Tj
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s statutory schemes\205)Tj
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(The Chair advised the Committee that the sentence \(p.3\) beginning, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" The main )Tj
T*
(recommendations of the report\205" )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
(should be changed to, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" The priority recommendations of the )Tj
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(report\205".)Tj
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(The Chair thought it more sensible to state on \(p.9)Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(\), " The Minister stated she was pleased to )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(inherit a positive budget...")Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
( rather than, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" The Minister was pleased to inherit a positive )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(budget\205". )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
(The Minister was content with this amendment.)Tj
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(The Minister asked could the sentence on \(p.7)Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(\), " The Chair noted this ministerial )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(announcement but proposed that student hardship remain within the remit \
of the HE Review\205" )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
0 -1.20148 TD
(read as, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" The Chair noted this ministerial announcement but proposed that studen\
t hardship )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(also remain within the remit of the HE Review\205")Tj
ET
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( )Tj
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(The Chair stated that the section on )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(Review of Assembly Sponsored Bodies \(ASPBs\) )Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
(needed )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(amending in that the ASPBs applicable to the ELL Committee were: Higher \
Education Funding )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(Council; General Teaching Council for Wales; National Council for Educat\
ion and Training )Tj
T*
(\(ELWa\); and Wales New Deal Task Force.)Tj
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(The Chair suggested to the Committee that \(p.9\), )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" a review of the educational aspects of the )Tj
0 -1.20148 TD
(Welsh language",)Tj
/TT0 1 Tf
( should read, )Tj
/TT1 1 Tf
(" a review of the educational aspects of Welsh Language )Tj
0 -1.2 TD
(policy\205")Tj
ET
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(The Chair suggested that Annex 2 be omitted, as it was not really necess\
ary to include this in )Tj
T*
(the Committee Report.)Tj
ET
EMC
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(The Committee sanctioned these changes to the progress report and had no\
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(amended Strategic Forward Work Programme.)Tj
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(Item Five: Minutes of 4)Tj
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(th)Tj
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( April Meeting)Tj
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12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 266.41495 Tm
(Paper: ELL 07-01\(mins\))Tj
ET
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12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 232.84109 Tm
(The Committee ratified the minutes of the meeting. There were no suggest\
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ET
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(Papers to Note)Tj
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BT
/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 133.9325 166.80026 Tm
(Paper to Note: Policy Review \226 Supply of School Places)Tj
ET
EMC
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BT
/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 133.6039 Tm
(Paper: ELL 08-01\(p.8\))Tj
ET
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/P <>BDC
BT
/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 100.40753 Tm
(Paper to Note: Estyn\222s remit letter \(2001-02\) from the National Ass\
embly )Tj
ET
EMC
/P <>BDC
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/TT2 1 Tf
12.98181 0 0 12.98181 9.27272 67.21117 Tm
(Paper: ELL 08-01\(p.9\))Tj
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(Committee Secretariat May 2001 )Tj
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